Only two photos that show anything of usefulness from the original gun. This one is a neat one. I have my thoughts, what say you?
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/DB_DP/72110764_receiver.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/DB_DP/72110764_RSL.jpg~original)
Me thinks now we know the location for production line 0223. thumb1
Can we call her Debbie?
Nifty!
It was turned into a DB in 1972? :)
Well.....since my account is still active........What pics would you like to see? After It arrives....I can get good detailed pics if you think this would shed any light into the DB mystery.
Let us know if anything else is of interest. thumb1
I would be interested to see if the sight leaf was serialed to the gun. Shouldn't we be getting into the III or 3 realm about then?
Rifle came in.....pics are on my photo-bucket.....it definitely is a strange bird......and cool. Interesting stamps...almost a date looking stamp on the underside of the receiver. A different set of numbers on the bolt carrier and bolt. ]en...different numbers on the tang of the receiver cover and the receiver end near the barrel.....I found no number on the underside of the rear sight ramp. There is a number on the intermediate rod? I have never owned a DB rifle before...but I have heard the fit and finish was lackluster.....this rifle is not as such. I cant tell if the serial number is covering 2 Chinese characters after the DB or not.
DB Story by padams8888 | Photobucket (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/DB/story)
Definitely different! Not seen one marked like that before. Since there doesn't seem to be any connection in the numbers, I take it that it's a mixmaster? But who marked the parts like that? Very cool to see. B-West was sure consistent about being inconsistent! Thanks for the share!
firstchoice
Quote from: padams8888 on June 26, 2015, 11:45:55 PM
but I have heard the fit and finish was lackluster.....this rifle is not as such. I cant tell if the serial number is covering 2 Chinese characters after the DB or not.
DB Story by padams8888 | Photobucket (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/DB/story)
Definitely a neat one. I would say you only have a single Lushun designator
(旅) after the DB. The odd dash number at the bottom of the receiver is consistent with an earlier DB (S/N 01846x), though the format is a bit different. (http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/DB_DP/018469_receiver_bottom.jpg~original)
I wonder if they used the same format on the receiver as their crates and ammo: XXX-YY-ZZZ lot number, year, factory. If so yours would be lot #8, 1972, factory 10. and the one I show above would be lot 8-1 (not sure this is right as it's not consistent), 1972, factory 3
Makes me wonder if the Chinese began to track the individual components by using these dash stamps. We certainly don't see these types of numbers stamped on Chinese guns themselves before say 1970.
So......got to looking today at another one of my rifles......Not sure how I didn't notice it before....but the DB 0223 rifle laid next to my other [0223], they have the exact same number sequence stamped on the underside of the receiver.....not a mind blower....just thought it was interesting....The front underside numbers are different....
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01227_zpsnaka68wf.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01227_zpsnaka68wf.jpg.html)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01231_zpsyoszkij5.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01231_zpsyoszkij5.jpg.html)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/DSC01238_zpsy5lnx16d.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/DSC01238_zpsy5lnx16d.jpg.html)
That's interesting stuff Pat! thumb1
So the '72 at the bottom doesn't jive with the giant '70 on the side of the receiver. I'll have to think that one over. Maybe I/we are wrong with the giant number assessment being a year code, or we're flat out wrong with the bottom number on the receiver being a lot-year-factory code... Good stuff to think about. Besplode
Although I just had a thought...it looks like they stamped the 70 and the [0223] immediately on the receivers after fabrication (as evidenced by the DB oopsie). I wonder if they didn't simply do it rote and then had an unforseen situation where they couldn't actually assemble the gun until '72. Maybe the stampings on the bottom are when they actually assembled (or heat treated/final machined/proof tested) the receivers...
Or maybe the bottom # isnt a date at all..
Isn't the 70 something we see on the cast receiver sks's with the two vertical pins? I believe 2 previous ones I've owned were marked that way.....
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z348/padams8888/923695b5-a077-4e58-b244-e85eb38c599d_zpsbedrc6fu.jpg) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/padams8888/media/923695b5-a077-4e58-b244-e85eb38c599d_zpsbedrc6fu.jpg.html)
Sorry for the bad pic.....but I believe this was one of them....albeit 0221 vice 0223. Maybe that bottom number is a contract control number?? think1
It's entirely possible that the bottom x-xx-xx number isn't a lot-date-factory number, but I've got a hard time believing that the Chinese would stamp something that looks exactly like a lot-date-factory code, yet it be an entirely different code.
So if we break it down into which guns have the giant numerals:
The giant 70/71 (and possibly 72, think I've seen it but now I can't find one) are seen on:
[0221] (70 S/N's 402xxx, 300xxxx Interesting that there are two distinct ranges here)
[0223] (70 S/N's 32 0xxxxx)
[0233] (71 S/N's 10xxxx), also have a small '70, 0223 w/o a box around it, S/N 10240x)
DB Shenyang (Giant 721 xxxx)
DB Yanqing (Giant 721 00xxxx)
And these guns have the little 70's on them:
[0132] ('70)
[0138] ('70 including stamped receivers, '72, '75, '76)
[0141] ('72, '73, '75)
[0142] ('72)
[0147] ('73)
[0226b] ('72)
DB Harbin (70xxxxx)
DB Lushun (7210xxxx)
/6011\ ('71)
I think there's a decent correlation between the giant 70's and the little 70's as the majority of the little 70's (minus the oddball /6011\ examples) are all rectangle and DB examples just like the giant 70's in the upper list.
Going to take more data to verify the pattern, but it will be interesting to see if any other giant 70's show up and whether they will be rectangle or DB stamped guns.
If the bottom #s are indeed a date code.... its likely applied sometime after the rifle was made. What the purpose is, is anyones guess.
What makes you think that?
Because 70 comes before 72. thankyou1
Dont forget many of the DBs show signs of being a converted DPs
Well of course the 72 comes after the 70! bat1
The question is whether the huge 70 is really a date code or is it something else. I think it was intended to be a date code, but something caused this particular run of [0223]s to be delayed for some reason and they weren't assembled until '72, or maybe even later than that. I'd love to see the bottom of the receivers of about a half dozen of these. I wish we had more data! cry1
Thats only 50% of the equation. They could have been applied in opposite fashion from the way you describe.
How is that possible? Either they are both dates and the order is set, or one / both are not dates and then we have to go back and totally reevaluate the dating theory on the giant and small numbered 70-76's
There's precious little data to work with here, I think you gotta go with the logical over the possible and get more data to confirm or deny.
I wish I had access to more pics and information on this subject, but I'll give my 2 cents on what I've noticed.
I've spent a few hours looking on the web at DP/DB guns. Here's a few observations..
- Restamped DP to DB guns. After looking at a lot of pics, I don't believe any guns were changed from DP to DB. Two reasons why... 1- all the pics of "proposed" restamped guns, talk about the lower B portion being added to an existing P. If you look at those guns, there is no double stamping over the existing P. If it were a P restamped with a B, you'd see indications of the P being stamped over. 2- this one should completely debunk the restamped theory. Every DP gun I see, has both the character for the city, AND the three type 56 characters. All the DB guns ONLY have the city marker. If you are STARTING with a DP gun, then a restamped DP to DB will also have the type 56 characters....and none do.
- the 70/71/72 dating in question. If you notice....the guns in question here that have 70 stamped arsenals and then are stamped again elsewhere, ONLY have the 70 and the arsenal code. There is NO original stamped serial! I bet you anything, these were leftover receivers from 1970, that were finally put into production at a later date (i.e. 72). I don't think the Chinese were scrubbing guns that early....and why would they? It's a military weapon. They don't care what it looks like...just put the new stamp somewhere else. As for that 3 part number under the receiver.....IF the middle digit matches the "date" check digits in the new serial, then that's a pretty good bet that center number is also a year identifier. Does this three part number under the receiver ONLY appear on double stamped guns? If so....it's probably part of the redating an older unused receiver.
Yup.. I hear ya, and for the most part agree.
But... The DP to DB was not a complete B stamp over the P. I have seen several guns that appear to have the bottom hook/lobe added to the P to make it a B. thumb1
All good points PS. The lack of the 'type 56' markings from P to B is a good observation and you're right for the most part. You were going good up until here:
Quote from: Power Surge on July 12, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
Every DP gun I see, has both the character for the city, AND the three type 56 characters. All the DB guns ONLY have the city marker. If you are STARTING with a DP gun, then a restamped DP to DB will also have the type 56 characters....and none do.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/DB_DP/7210076_receiver.jpg~original)
These DB's with the 'type 56' characters are markedly different than other DB's though, the B's are highly stylized and don't look at all like P's converted to B's.
I would say that even the B's that are odd looking could easily have been stamped that way. It's not a stretch to think the Chinese took and modified a P stamp with the needed features to make it a B (welded up material and then remachined it) and used that modified stamp to mark the DP's. I would suspect that 1970's China would not have been flush with Roman letter stamps for marking their SKSs with :)
Either way, they are good observations. thumb1 I'd love to know if more mid 70's gun have that x-xx-xx identifier on the bottom of the receiver. I'll look through the survey data and see if I can turn anything up.
Its also not a stretch to say China aided guns to Pak and then later to Bang after their revolution (plenty of evidence of this) and simply modified already existing DP marked guns. Seeing they were imported from china, they could simply be rifles that never made the trip... Just like the Norinco marked IC guns that never made the trip. Not surprised to se a secondary 'rework' for bang destination in 72. Bang declared Independence March 1971 and the war was over by Dec 1971.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 12, 2015, 08:08:57 PM
Its also not a stretch to say China aided guns to Pak and then later to Bang after their revolution (plenty of evidence of this) and simply modified already existing DP marked guns.
But the data just doesn't jive with that. No
五六式 on the DB guns for the most part (except for the example I showed above) yet every DP I've seen has it. How'd it magically disappear moving forward being that the DPs have it between the DP and S/N stampings? Hard to disappear a stamp like that w/o scrubbing, and if you're going to scrub, why leave the DP then change it to a DB that looks like crap? :)
The serial number ranges are pretty different between DB and DP: DB's are all over the place, 5 or 6 digit undateable odd balls and 721's while the DPs are for the most part year 19 through year 25 w/o the oddballs.
I think I'm firmly in the "No way the Chinese simply completed the 'B'" camp. If they did, there are a crapton of oddball DPs noone here has ever seen.
Who knows... But the Pak and Bang theory is still possible imo.
It's absolutely possible, but to move it beyond possible to probable we need some hard data. Otherwise it's the same as ex-DDR, lots of possibles and pontificating, but severely lacking any evidence to actually confirm it.
Has any thought gone into DB or DP meaning something completely different than has previously been speculated? Destination Pakistan and Destination Bangladesh seems odd to me as to why the Chinese would even resort to anything English translatable. I have been wondering if perhaps since there were so many material and design modifications for these guns....the DB and DP might just be the Mercury vs Ford of the late SKS world. Minor differences, but they seemed to be trying to evolve to cheaper and faster production...the differences in quality to older SKS is obvious from a distance....well once you know what to look for. :)
Has there ever been any evidence any SKS's marked as these ever were in either said country?
I think the possibility of these being assembled from pre existing pre stamped parts is very likely...so actual dating would be impossible. The 0226 I just got, which exhibits the same features as these, a few cast parts...the roughly machined barrel...etc. It could be that just a particular era of SKS production was not necessarily last ditch, but they weren't throwing any resources towards maintenance of the tooling...hence the ad hock P/B stamping.
I also have been wondering if pinned barrels were perhaps all made at the same place, and then shipped to various smaller arsenals...the ribbing on various version's barrels which do not seem to be intentional might be why they seem to appear in this era, the various cast parts also seems to be an indicator that they might just be slapping these together with parts they had to make crudely sometimes. Maybe these were just made to be stockpiled while the tooling and spare parts lasted, and they were just 'creating jobs'. chuckles1
This may have just been a 'dark era' for the Chinese SKS...before quality production resumed post Norinco and commercially produced guns.
I find myself a little silly being so interested in the crummiest SKS's out there...but they are just so neat. :)
Just a dumb question, :) Justin Hell states they are
Quotethe crummiest SKS's out there
so, something I haven't seen brought up, so I'll just chuck it out there :o
DP - Drill Purpose and or DB - Drill Brigade
Maybe they were military rejects, based on what I see about the quality, something was out of spec, instead of just trashing them, they designated for Drill use. China did think enough about this weapon design to use it in an "Honor Guard" capacity, so why not a bottom dollar beater drill rifle. Maybe they were made to a lower standard, as a lower quality, yet fully functional weapon. Heck, maybe they were rear line weapons, used just to guard some military installation, weapons factories or Chinas Area 51. Or just maybe, another type of internal Police weapon.
I would look more into their militia groups.
Well here's my thoughts... we have zero proof of anything at this point, so ANY theory is just speculation.
The other thing that's cross my mind related to this topic, is something Justin mentioned above.... why the heck would the Chinese mark a gun with anything English? I can see them using the number system...but why use letters? For all we know...these could be latin letters, like the older letter guns. There is a D, P, and B on the latin letter list.
I'm new to owning 1 but been reading and seeing them for awhile. The 25,000,062 DP I just got is almost up there in quality with my pinned barrell Public Security SKS....except a few places where it wasn't polished up and you can see mill marks. The gas tube Inside diameter is tight as well, as its a B**** to get back on. These things I can live with and are not like some of the other rough 1's I've come across.
Now here is a possible theory...A WAG on my part.... Since we've seen late parts and cast pieces and its allready been thrown out there, that more than likely, they were made at some of the smaller arsenals...
Could be that they were made at Non-arsenals? I've been reading about a couple different Chinese companys that name starts with DP. DP Lighting for example. It could explain weird stamps and all over the place quality.
Everyone feel free to shoot this down like it was a game of duck hunt on your nintendo. rofl Just a thought as I'm still on the new side of these.
A lil off subject but since we've been talking about some quality control problems... I've been noticing the worst of the worst and most cast parts I've come across have been on [ ] arsenals.
Considering the variations we have seen in factory codes...could DB and DP simply be factory codes, just in a different manner than before? Perhaps keeping up the production of the SKS whilst the more refined and better tooled factories manufactured other stuff?
It kind of bugs me that they would use any kind of English abbreviation at all, when most of these are stamped with Chinese city designations...
GM brings up a point that I had considered before too...low grade weapons for training purposes. They certainly aren't pretty in most circumstances, but are functional and for training purposes...serviceable as much as nicer ones would be.
Composed and posted after AH's comment...just was too sleepy to click post I suppose...new dog is kicking my ass.
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 15, 2015, 04:09:11 PM
Considering the variations we have seen in factory codes...could DB and DP simply be factory codes, just in a different manner than before? Perhaps keeping up the production of the SKS whilst the more refined and better tooled factories manufactured other stuff?
This right here thumb1 What all were they putting out at this time? The SKS got put on the back burner until they figured out that Americans would buy up any and all they would send us, Maybe?
Sorry if this is a bit of a rehash of discussion for some of yall. Now that I have 1 I've become a bit more invested in finding out more about them.
I hate these basted things. rofl
Quote from: armedhippie on July 15, 2015, 03:45:14 PM
A lil off subject but since we've been talking about some quality control problems... I've been noticing the worst of the worst and most cast parts I've come across have been on [ ] arsenals.
I would have to agree with this 100%. Some of the []'s are just crap. I always thought they constituted the experimentation houses. We know that the [0138] factory produced the stamped receiver (it's actually more just a bunch of cast components with sheet metal and rivets connecting the whole thing together much like a late AK would be) and [0221] had numerous cast receiver examples. Within the assembly there are lots of loose, wide open tolerances that were needed to even come close to building a fully functioning/reliable firearm out of parts like that. I suspect there was quite a bit of hand work needed to get some of them to operate / pass final inspection. Along with the loose tolerances, there are also lots of cast parts, lots of pinned barrels, lots of real roughly machined barrels/components, and lots of very sloppy looking spot welds on magazines, trigger groups, & other stamped components.
With the gun in the very first post in this thread, there seems to be some kind of connection between a DB gun and a [0223]...even if it's only minor such as [0223] is where the DP factory sourced their hardware from.
We obviously need to get as much detail from every DB/DP we can find, but I'd also suggest we probably need to look over every [0223] and maybe every [0XXX] to see what kinds of similarities we can find amongst all of them. The bottom X-XX-XX stampings were something I'd never seen before, and all of a sudden padams8888 shows two almost identical ones in a single thread and it turns out I had one in my files I'd never paid attention to. The info is out there, the data just needs to be scrutinized. To find that data we need to settle on what to begin to look for.
I said it I dunno how many times. I believe the [] guns are from the same location, and Im not even surprised to see a DB on a [] gun. They have way too much in common.
Lots of people believed ex-ddrs were special and stamped in East Germany to boot. You know as well as I do that we need solid evidence to move it beyond a hunch. :)
It may take months and we might never find anything else of value that moves the needle one way or the other. On the other hand, we may find a trove of info next week that definitively proves things if we concentrate on something specific.
Well yeah.. I just have a hunch. Hate these things! bat1
Laugh! Yeah I hear ya. Just trying to temper expectations and keep us grounded a bit :)
Quote from: running-man on July 15, 2015, 09:06:25 PM
Laugh! Yeah I hear ya. Just trying to temper expectations and keep us grounded a bit :)
Bah... Your agreeing with every WAG but mine!! bat1
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 15, 2015, 09:08:42 PM
Quote from: running-man on July 15, 2015, 09:06:25 PM
Laugh! Yeah I hear ya. Just trying to temper expectations and keep us grounded a bit :)
Bah... Your agreeing with every WAG but mine!! bat1
cry1 cry1. Whahahaha, boo hoo, whats even scarier, he didn't disagree :o with my WAG thumb1 rofl2
Whoa....the DB Cooper SKS, the mystery that left everyone stumped.
Laff... I didn't even wanna know your theory on the DP. :o
Here's another DP that just hit GB. Looks like a nice gun.
Have you guys noticed a lot of these DB/DP guns have really low serials?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=495340025
Nice. Looks like a 22000xx 大 (Dalian) to me (which matches well with the other 22006xx in the serial list). Though the photos are semi horsetrashy for detail.
The highest DP/DB i've ever seen is 1076x which coincidentally is the one that started this thread :)
Maybe they produced more than they thought they would, wound up running out of pristine receivers and had to 'borrow' some from [0223]. It's a total speculation WAG with absolutely zero proof (wasn't I giving LC a hard time about that just yesterday? tomato1), but it being such a high number compared to the rest of the DB/DP field, it would make sense that they 'ran out'. I wonder if another Lushun 10k will turn up with a [0223] on it?
Pull at the threads and things start to unravel (either that or you get a huge knot!) chuckles1
Oh sure.. The ole 'ran out of receivers' routine. bat1
I lie, there is an unknown DB with S/N 1318x:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/DB_DP/7111318x_reciever.jpg~original)
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 16, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
Oh sure.. The ole 'ran out if receivers' routine. bat1
Hey at least I'm not pulling out the "they didn't have enough steel to make an SKS in 1960" card. chuckles1
Mopeds and bicycles were far more important then national security.... Duh!
I THINK this is an 0223...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=495226079
I used to have an /0223\B. Does that count?
Quote from: running-man on July 16, 2015, 07:23:09 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 16, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
Oh sure.. The ole 'ran out if receivers' routine. bat1
Hey at least I'm not pulling out the "they didn't have enough steel to make an SKS in 1960" card. chuckles1
They didn't. I was told more or less point blank, China had almost no steel production for weapons at that time......it's true, they had none, it was all gone, zip, nadda no production then. fart1
Ok, Lets WAG... These things having from what I can tell district or city names, makes me lean to a form or type of law enforcment. Why would they be stamped with Dalian, Lushun, Shenyang, Harbin, names of cities or a Chinese locale. Why would the military stamp city names in weapons, when they had such a strong presence to.begin with in China. Also quality is or seems lower than the "milspec". China had various police forces, and all were state run, but maybe not military controlled. Maybe certain state factories made a lower cost police, guard, boarder patrol issue only weapons, all these markings may be police armory marks, either repair, a rebuild, or inspection. Maybe the Public Security ones were the elite police, SWAT, stuff like that, the rest were reqular standard issue for the normal officers.
If each city had their own marked sks... We missing thousands of marks. :o
QuoteWhy would the military stamp city names in weapons, when they had such a strong presence to.begin with in China.
Because perhaps they are not military. thumb1
QuoteMaybe the Public Security ones were the elite police, SWAT, stuff like that,
ROFLMFAO
Note that each city code found on the DB/DPs is in the NE quadrant right up there at the border with North Korea. Heilongjiang, Liaoning, & Jilin. I think the close proximity to NK is something to consider.
Another thing to look at is to concentrate on the date of the DB/[0223] gun in this thread and see what we might infer from what we know about the state of the country. As best we can make out, the date is solidly '70 to '72 and all the other DBs and [0223]s are similar. By '70 the 'Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution' was in full swing. The Red Guards were out of control and many intellectuals were fired from their jobs, tortured, and killed. They wanted to change the friggin' traffic lights from red means stop to red means go for goodness sakes.
Quote from: CHINA'S CULTURAL REVOLUTION, 1966-1969: Not a Dinner Party by SchoenhalsZhou Enlai suavely convinced Red Guards who wanted to change the traffic lights to go on red and stop on green that it would be best to continue stopping on red "to respect the revolutionary order."
So in this time we're seeing []'s experimenting with all different sorts of manufacturing processes. Maybe it was not necessarily to make things more efficient, but instead because the country's failing infrastructure/political turmoil/neglect of basic research into anything but a nuclear weapon meant they couldn't support making an SKS the 'traditional way' in mass production.
I'd have to agree that any '70's built SKSs were likely not intended for the military, the T63/68 was in full swing by then.
Another DP...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=495595229
Here's a DP barreled receiver...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=495962426
Quote from: Power Surge on July 19, 2015, 05:03:35 PM
Here's a DP barreled receiver...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=495962426
The quality on that 1 looks very good from the pics.
First one is a year 20 (1975) Jilin City build and the second is a year 21 (1976) Jilin City also. Both with pinned barrels, cast gas blocks, late style FSBs, "3" style RSLs, & late RSBs. I need to go through and categorize all these similar DPs and DBs and see if anything stands out. They are pretty consistent in their build hardware (even from year to year) at each city factory it seems.
Here's another double stamped DB/0223...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=496206024
Boy Chang must have tied one on the night before stamping that...what a train wreck!
Looks like a mix of parts, but it does have that funky rounded cast gas block. Its a shame about the gas tube and receiver cover, that appears to be one of the better milled ones.
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 27, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Boy Chang must have tied one on the night before stamping that...what a train wreck!
Looks like a mix of parts, but it does have that funky rounded cast gas block. Its a shame about the gas tube and receiver cover, that appears to be one of the better milled ones.
IMO, that gun there shows a strong case for the receiver being made in 70 and never used (no serial along with it), and then it being but into service in 72.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 27, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Boy Chang must have tied one on the night before stamping that...what a train wreck!
Looks like a mix of parts, but it does have that funky rounded cast gas block. Its a shame about the gas tube and receiver cover, that appears to be one of the better milled ones.
IMO, that gun there shows a strong case for the receiver being made in 70 and never used (no serial along with it), and then it being but into service in 72.
That seems quite plausible...after /26\ switched away from the SKS, I am beginning to suspect that a lot of guns were slapped together with whatever surplus was on hand...anything missing seems to be have made ad hoc by casting less stressed parts. A very strange era for the Chinese SKS for sure.
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 27, 2015, 08:31:16 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 27, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Boy Chang must have tied one on the night before stamping that...what a train wreck!
Looks like a mix of parts, but it does have that funky rounded cast gas block. Its a shame about the gas tube and receiver cover, that appears to be one of the better milled ones.
IMO, that gun there shows a strong case for the receiver being made in 70 and never used (no serial along with it), and then it being but into service in 72.
That seems quite plausible...after /26\ switched away from the SKS, I am beginning to suspect that a lot of guns were slapped together with whatever surplus was on hand...anything missing seems to be have made ad hoc by casting less stressed parts. A very strange era for the Chinese SKS for sure.
Eh, I don't know about that. Obviously we are seeing some pretty poor guns from the [xxxx] arsenals, but most of the other arsenal guns in the 70s are some of the nicest ones ever built.
Bwahahahahaha. I dunno about that.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 08:46:10 PM
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 27, 2015, 08:31:16 PM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 27, 2015, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: Justin Hell on July 27, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Boy Chang must have tied one on the night before stamping that...what a train wreck!
Looks like a mix of parts, but it does have that funky rounded cast gas block. Its a shame about the gas tube and receiver cover, that appears to be one of the better milled ones.
IMO, that gun there shows a strong case for the receiver being made in 70 and never used (no serial along with it), and then it being but into service in 72.
That seems quite plausible...after /26\ switched away from the SKS, I am beginning to suspect that a lot of guns were slapped together with whatever surplus was on hand...anything missing seems to be have made ad hoc by casting less stressed parts. A very strange era for the Chinese SKS for sure.
Eh, I don't know about that. Obviously we are seeing some pretty poor guns from the [xxxx] arsenals, but most of the other arsenal guns in the 70s are some of the nicest ones ever built.
I suppose I should have been more specific to the DB/DP models...they are all over the place with construction and parts used. The late 70's /26\s are superb, and a couple of other later models I have are quite nice too. It seems to me there was a time where surplus was used before the commercial era designed for export that many assume were surplus slap togethers. These almost seem last ditch.
Bringing this thread back because I have a new data point. So we had [0223] guns to start this thread.
Now what about, /0223\? (http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/survey/triangle/T0223a_P.jpg~original)
Like say, this one:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T0223/21003012_receiver.jpg~original)
Way old import evidenced by the really early three line Labanu import stamp:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T0223/21003012_import_stamp.jpg~original)
But turn the sucker over and hmm, we see something we saw with the [0223]'s:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T0223/21003012_receiver_bottom.jpg~original)
Not only that, but bottom stamp code is 9-76-2, and serial nth year of production is 21, which is also '76 per the SKS-Files dating system. Interesting! think1
Same arsenal. :))