Alright fellas...here's my new Russian sneak. Now, I know very little about Russians, so I took tons of pics and hopefully you guys can give me an idea of the year of this gun. I am blown away at just how many stamps there are on this gun.
It's an IO import, and has a two hole Albanian stock. The fish scale wood is actually quite pretty in person. As expected, the receiver cover was changed, most likely when it was in China's possession. The bluing on the cover looks to have aged at the same rate as the rest of the gun.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_184618_zpsx97flmhr.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_184634_zpspa4kmfpz.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_184706_zpswp9kbm5p.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_184720_zpsrjoyz3xk.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_184750_zpskp8ntyuu.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191042_zpsvtpufjmb.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191057_zpsvcxwkbwe.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191115_zpsaww52clx.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191127_zpszfxns71t.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191146_zps1tyoxwvk.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191155_zpsldhqgcd2.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191215_zpsudsau0lu.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191233_zpsswx6fior.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191247_zpsdnnknlhp.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191304_zpsfaktq7ei.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191438_zpsazm0v5ys.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191514_zpsy0ha4htj.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191533_zps5x1zakwr.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191553_zps9v1sqb1t.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191656_zpsggyzw10h.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191701_zpsbg61ii9f.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191711_zpsokfc5bfm.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191728_zpsz5hb83gb.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191741_zpsgydnikgq.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191812_zpssyiwc8hl.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191830_zpsyrz94a5b.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191913_zps8okiyniy.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191923_zpscbka773v.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191944_zps5c3io2jx.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_191952_zpsu2fym6yi.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192007_zps9bltypdu.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192018_zpsxyoisvfb.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192102_zpsme0cuvu2.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192128_zpstmfxvavb.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192141_zpsjrvr6kax.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192205_zpslc3z8tnh.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192218_zps58samwkq.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192305_zps6ex0ou00.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192322_zpsvw5yyo2d.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192341_zpsetgudyyw.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192353_zpsjfllbb5i.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192407_zpscwia5npp.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192445_zpsflowsso2.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192453_zpsecsricj5.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192500_zpsapuawhvi.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192523_zpskj0p7ulw.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192553_zpshecqlib8.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192641_zpsxtidviy1.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192823_zpsiev0ilqo.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192852_zpsidiojycj.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192917_zpsjsxtuukm.jpg)
Whew!! That's all....give me your thoughts...
I like it. thumb1
Cool 8)
After looking at that I wasn't expecting to say, I need more pics rofl ...but where are the receiver cover pics? :))
I would expect it was the Albanians that mixed up the receiver cover and the rest of the rifle while they were replacing the stock of this Soviet SKS.
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on July 17, 2015, 08:50:39 PM
Cool 8)
After looking at that I wasn't expecting to say, I need more pics rofl ...but where are the receiver cover pics? :))
I would expect it was the Albanians that mixed up the receiver cover and the rest of the rifle while they were replacing the stock of this Soviet SKS.
You know... when I saw the changed receiver cover, I said to myself that the numbers don't look Chinese. They are way smaller font than anything Chinese I have or have seen.
Your reply made me go look at Alby stampings too... and it doesn't look like a factory one of those either. So not really sure....
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_2056521_zpslo3nvvic.jpg)
I just noticed this too....
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_2106291_zpskidv8ikq.jpg)
How many early chinese you have?
Should be similar... Looks like a 5 digit ghost cover.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 09:24:24 PM
Should be similar... Looks like a 5 digit ghost cover.
It's way different... I'll try to take a pic side by side with my 2 mil cover. These numbers are quite a bit smaller. And also when you look at numbers on an early Chinese, they are deeper stampings and usually raise the surrounding metal around the number. This one is completely flat. Let me snap a pic...
Here's a comparison to my 2mil.... I also compared the machining inside both and there are differences there too.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_2134061_zpsnm67bveb.jpg)
Def a ghost cover... They are smaller if I recall.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 17, 2015, 09:38:59 PM
Here's a comparison to my 2mil.... I also compared the machining inside both and there are differences there too.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_2134061_zpsnm67bveb.jpg)
Here's the cover from my matching Ghost SKS
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/SKS%20T56%2039563/IMG_8070.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/SKS%20T56%2039563/IMG_8070.jpg.html)
Notice the 6 font
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 10:31:06 PM
Notice the 6 font
I have been comparing it..since it's the only related number. It's close, but hard to say. What we need to really see, is if a known ghost cover has those other inspection marks that I posted in the other pic.
Ghosts are loaded with insoection stamps.... This isn't a mystery. I have seen them on the cover of some and not others. A ghost having/not having a stamp there does not change what it is.
Is it russian? Nope
Is it Romanian? Nope
Is it Albanian? Nope
Is it Yugo? Nope
So what is everyone's guess on year? I have been reading threads and looking at pics of other guns all night, any my feeling is that it has to be a 52-54 year Russian. Guns before and after those three years have different attributes.
Also....I have seen discussion of how do you identify a Tula from an Izzy without the receiver cover or stock.
This may be old news, or maybe I just stumbled onto something here, but....
While taking pics of my sneak, one stamp in particular jumped out at me. Look at the pic below:
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192341_zpsetgudyyw.jpg)
Notice the little STAR stamp? Could this be something to show a Tula receiver from an Izzy? Can we get someone here who has 52-54 Tula and Izzy guns to pull the stocks and check? CARBINE maybe?
Its chinese.... And the letter series has the letter, the 6 digi had all 6 digits marked, 2m hqd last 6, 3m had last 6, font matches ghost, size matches ghost.
That star stamp is an inspectors stamp... Its seen on rear sight leafs mostly.
Pretty nice one there PS. I've got nothing on a PИ as the two I have don't have original receiver covers or stocks (both are IO sinobanians thoughm so your gun was in good company!):
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/P1578_receiver.jpg~original)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/P3881_receiver.jpg~original)
Features look like a '53 or '54 to me.
As for the receiver cover. I think ghost as well. Here's a couple covers close to the 46.4k ghost. The font seems to grow as time goes on and certain numerals change gradually too (1's). I can't find them right now, but I know I've got guns with multiple font sizes in the same line too.
44095:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/ghost/44095_receiver_cover.jpg~original)
47179:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/ghost/47179_receiver_cover2.jpg~original)
Here is a 271k /26\:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/271514_receiver_cover.jpg~original)
2.41 mil /26\:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/2417411_receiver_cover.jpg~original)
3.22 mil /26\:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/3223441_receiver_cover.jpg~original)
and a 7.07 mil /26\:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/7072874_receiver_cover.jpg~original)
finally an 8.14 mil /26\ (totally different 4, though parade rifle may be a bad example)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/T26/8145496_receiver_cover.jpg~original)
See... RM has spoken. Mystery solved. thankyou1
There is a РИ2797 marked as 1953 in the Canadian Russian SKS registry. There is also a 55/56 designated РИ3504 (which shows a bit of sloppiness in dropping the K as I have a PИ1985_K) and a 1951 РИ1067_X which is total bull****, likely a K suffix and replacement or mistakenly identified receiver cover.
I'd say you have a '53 there PS if I was hard pressed to pick a year.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 11:11:46 PM
See... RM has spoken. Mystery solved. thankyou1
Laff, you darn well know that I'm wrong as often as not. I just posted what I thought with some photos to help show the progression, doesn't make it gospel!! chuckles1
Zero reliability in the CA survey.... I say its a 54 because RM says 53. rofl
Quote from: running-man on July 17, 2015, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 11:11:46 PM
See... RM has spoken. Mystery solved. thankyou1
Laff, you darn well know that I'm wrong as often as not. I just posted what I thought with some photos to help show the progression, doesn't make it gospel!! chuckles1
Lol.... Its about time you posted. Now PS has someone to believe! rofl2
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 11:17:28 PM
Lol.... Its about time you posted. Now PS has someone to believe! rofl2
Believing isn't be about who posts it, it's about whether it's true or not! :) PS is good to be skeptical of it being a ghost cover. At some point, the evidence points one way or another. I know darn well those 4's changed ~8 mil or so, so unless someone wants to say it's a cover off a [0223] or something chuckles1 (dang I crack me up!), it's gotta be at most a 7 mil or earlier gun.
I've also seen that star stamp all over both 100% native Russians, Sino-Banian Russians/Chinese, and 100% Chinese guns. I think it's a common stamp like the circle O ad circle Y's on the barrel lugs.
See... There ya go PS. chuckles1
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 11:17:28 PM
Quote from: running-man on July 17, 2015, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 11:11:46 PM
See... RM has spoken. Mystery solved. thankyou1
Laff, you darn well know that I'm wrong as often as not. I just posted what I thought with some photos to help show the progression, doesn't make it gospel!! chuckles1
Lol.... Its about time you posted. Now PS has someone to believe! rofl2
Come on now, lol. I never said I didn't believe you....but I also like to know WHY :)
I say we make it a poll and start a full blown investigation. :)
QuoteCome on now, lol. I never said I didn't believe you....but I also like to know WHY :)
I like short answers... Easier. thumb1
Quote from: Power Surge on July 17, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
So what is everyone's guess on year? I have been reading threads and looking at pics of other guns all night, any my feeling is that it has to be a 52-54 year Russian. Guns before and after those three years have different attributes.
Also....I have seen discussion of how do you identify a Tula from an Izzy without the receiver cover or stock.
This may be old news, or maybe I just stumbled onto something here, but....
While taking pics of my sneak, one stamp in particular jumped out at me. Look at the pic below:
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192341_zpsetgudyyw.jpg)
Notice the little STAR stamp? Could this be something to show a Tula receiver from an Izzy? Can we get someone here who has 52-54 Tula and Izzy guns to pull the stocks and check? CARBINE maybe?
Yes, it's 1952-54 from looking at gas block and take down lever..... I will look on some guns today and see about the star.
Quote from: CARBINE on July 18, 2015, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 17, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
So what is everyone's guess on year? I have been reading threads and looking at pics of other guns all night, any my feeling is that it has to be a 52-54 year Russian. Guns before and after those three years have different attributes.
Also....I have seen discussion of how do you identify a Tula from an Izzy without the receiver cover or stock.
This may be old news, or maybe I just stumbled onto something here, but....
While taking pics of my sneak, one stamp in particular jumped out at me. Look at the pic below:
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192341_zpsetgudyyw.jpg)
Notice the little STAR stamp? Could this be something to show a Tula receiver from an Izzy? Can we get someone here who has 52-54 Tula and Izzy guns to pull the stocks and check? CARBINE maybe?
Yes, it's 1952-54 from looking at gas block and take down lever..... I will look on some guns today and see about the star.
I'm curious to see two things... 1- does that star stamp appear in the same area of different 52-54 guns, and 2- if so, does it appear on any izzys
My Russian has that star also, it's small and hard to see.
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh618/smithdblueDannyboy53/Russian%20SKS%2045/Rear%20sight_zps5zk9gu6k.jpg)
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh618/smithdblueDannyboy53/Russian%20SKS%2045/Russian%20star%20rear%20sight%20leaf_zps8lryk3fp.jpg)
Thanks Danny. I'm still curious if it's only seen on known Tula made guns or not.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on July 17, 2015, 11:04:23 PM
That star stamp is an inspectors stamp... Its seen on rear sight leafs mostly.
Quote from: Power Surge on July 23, 2015, 08:00:49 PM
Thanks Danny. I'm still curious if it's only seen on known Tula made guns or not.
I understand your curiousity but I am of no help with that question! There are some among our ranks that believe my carbine may be an Izhesvk, but no one can say for certain. Mine has been heavily refurbed (possibly even twice) and as you can see the rear sight leaf is a "new" item so that leads me to believe this star is not specific to either Tula or Izhesvk arsenals.
Quote from: CARBINE on July 18, 2015, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: Power Surge on July 17, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
So what is everyone's guess on year? I have been reading threads and looking at pics of other guns all night, any my feeling is that it has to be a 52-54 year Russian. Guns before and after those three years have different attributes.
Also....I have seen discussion of how do you identify a Tula from an Izzy without the receiver cover or stock.
This may be old news, or maybe I just stumbled onto something here, but....
While taking pics of my sneak, one stamp in particular jumped out at me. Look at the pic below:
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Russian%20sneak/20150717_192341_zpsetgudyyw.jpg)
Notice the little STAR stamp? Could this be something to show a Tula receiver from an Izzy? Can we get someone here who has 52-54 Tula and Izzy guns to pull the stocks and check? CARBINE maybe?
Yes, it's 1952-54 from looking at gas block and take down lever..... I will look on some guns today and see about the star.
Carbine, did you ever get to check some izzy vs tula receivers?
I found this one while cataloguing the Russians, S/N ОП8597:
Wickedly similar to yours Sal, unfortunately it has a mismatched receiver cover on it too:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/O8597_receiver.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/O8597_left_front.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/O8597_receiver_coveR_mismatch.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/O8597_receiver_stamp.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/O8597_import_stamp.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/O8597_right_lug.jpg)
Anyhow, it's of limited help in ID'ing your sneak, but that non-tabbed gas tube takedown lever is a big clue on this one. That is a 1954+ feature. I have two as-issued '55 ОП prefixed guns with the highest having a 5675 number. I think it's pretty likely this one is a '55 also.
Your tabbed takedown lever is pre-mid '54, yet both have the 'Tula' star on the right side of the receiver just in front of the bolt locking keystock. Those stars being in the same spot tie these two guns together in some way. Another thing tying them together is the fact they both came from Albania in the IO Monroe shipment. Maybe the star on the right side of the receiver means some kind of "ready for surplus" symbol? It would be interesting to see if the other IO sneaks also have this feature...
But its a fat star... Not a tight sexy pointed tula star. Its an exact match to the early NVA star.
(http://www.hmm-364.org/1968/photos-68/nva-flag3.jpg)
Which means it had to have went to NV, then to China, then to Albanian, then here. :)
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 27, 2016, 12:39:59 AM
But its a fat star... Not a tight sexy pointed tula star. Its an exact match to the early NVA star.
Which means it had to have went to NV, then to China, then to Albanian, then here. :)
Dammit man, a noob is gonna take you seriously! Then we'll hear it all over the 'net "Hey I have a fat Tula star on the side of my Russian SKS! It went to Vietnam and then to China and then to Albania!" bat1
rofl
And it'll be posted on 50 different forums and then it'll be truth, because nothing posted over and over again could be wrong! bat1
Killin me here. chuckles1
https://youtu.be/ygQvB6OjHOU
chuckles1
Here's another IO sneak. Unfortunately, no receiver cover to help date it, though this one is certainly a '52 to '54 gun as well. This one has both a RSL star and a receiver star in the right receiver keystock area:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/P1454_receiver.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/P1454_rear_sight_ladder_star.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/unknown/P1454_receiver_star.jpg)
I find it interesting that PS's gun is a PИ prefix, This one is a PП, and the other one I've seen was a OП. Definitely seems to be some kind of a group there. One other thing I just noticed is that these guns all have a prominent "C" stamp near the receiver keystock star stamp as well.
I'll have to look at my sneak when I get home in a week.