Hi, it's the newb trouble maker again..... My question this week is: would a refurb letter SKS retain the stock date stamp of the carbine it was removed from when the original SN on the exchanged stock had been XXX'd out?
I ask this because I just purchased a "D" letter SKS which had it's stock replaced. Going by what has been already researched, the "D" may signify a 1956 production date. However, the stock is still very clearly marked with the original Tula star and 1953 date stamp. :o
Would there have been any reason to retain the original date stamp on a stock refurb because it coincides with Stalins's year of death?? SN on stock is 2387 without a Cyrillic prefix (prefix on left receiver is "PL" in English). Obvious stamped SNs match and all of the metal appears original blued except for the bayo which is black. Pulling at straws with this odd-ball SKS, but I love mysteries..... I should have the gun in hand in a week or two for tear down and closer inspection.
As usual, all opinions and guesses appreciated! thumb1
Yup, you've got a 1956 Tula SKS-45 with serial number ПЛ2387Д (if I'm interpreting correctly) that was placed in the stock pulled off of a '53 Tula during refurbishment. They usually just X'd out the SN and left the markings. No relation to commemorating Stalin's death.
Now let's see it :)
quite common with replaced stocks. The blued/black bayonet is a nice score though.
I have a black bayo that went through a fire and it looks exactly like a black Russian bayo. I swear these black russians must have be reheat-treated post being chromed or something.
Okay, here are a few pics (not mine) to hold you all over until I receive it...
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Right%20side_zpsshcxwjxm.jpg)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Right%20trigger%20area_zpsag5wbnsg.jpg)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Muzzel%20and%20front%20sight_zpsse7yw2so.jpg)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Bolt%20and%20blank%20receiver%20cover_zpsseakqclm.jpg)
And a few more:
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Left%20fore%20end_zpsj0f5kix1.jpg)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Left%20trigger%20area_zpsgxcfqyxe.jpg)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Close%20Up%20stock%20SN%20and%20Tula%20star_zpshyvxnype.jpg)
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/montigre/Letter%20SKS/Left%20barrel%20and%20bayo_zpsvvgzyozi.jpg)
That's about all she wrote.... :)
The Ruskis didn't usually blue the bayonets did they? The replaced bayos I have seen thus far that are black have been painted with that BBQ stuff, but this one still has the sheen of a traditional bluing job. I told you guys this one was an odd ball... chuckles1
I should probably also add that this will be written up as one of those auction ads that RM labels as horsetrash. Not listed as a letter gun at all and no informative description given, but that was probably what allowed me to pick it up--I doubt the seller knew what he had and the ad would certainly not have attracted very many interested parties. Got it for a very fair price--I'm a happy camper!!
Mmm, deep rich red Russian shellac...I like it! thumb1
I have never..... never seen a bbq painted bayo. Unless it was a bubba done thing, would be the first to me. They have all been just like yours.
Nothing really oddball about that Ruskie..... it's just a pretty nice light refurb. I do find the restamped stock numbers kind of interesting though.
Quote from: montigre on August 09, 2016, 07:21:35 PM
The Ruskis didn't usually blue the bayonets did they? The replaced bayos I have seen thus far that are black have been painted with that BBQ stuff, but this one still has the sheen of a traditional bluing job. I told you guys this one was an odd ball... chuckles1
they are blued, at least those I have seen before.
Quote from: Power Surge on August 09, 2016, 07:29:57 PM
Nothing really oddball about that Ruskie..... it's just a pretty nice light refurb. I do find the restamped stock numbers kind of interesting though.
Agree. I remember seeing this rifle on gunbroker. It's a nice refurb, the replaced stock still has some inspection cartouches left.
I too found the way the new serial number was stamped on stock is uncommon.
I guess I cuz I'm still new, I've run into more bubba black bayos than the real thing--this is good to know!!
I agree--that numbering was odd, but I do remember seeing it on a couple of others. Unfortunately, I did not take the time to catalog them at the time and they are now lost to history...
Stock numbers seem pretty large. Deep also as the circle portion of the punch face hit the finish too..
Employee error in setting the pressure for the stamp? Or too much Vodka...
No machine.... this is a hand job <------- stop laughing !!!! bat1
Have you seen the outpost type rework facilities to keep the russian peasants busy?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on August 09, 2016, 08:51:35 PM
No machine.... this is a hand job <------- stop laughing !!!! bat1
:o ::) :) :)) chuckles1 rofl rofl2 Oh my!! sorry whistle12
Nice Dark Skin Russian young Man. Her blu eyed bayo brings out the beauty of her body. :P I think you only have 90 days to :-* merry her :-*
Quote from: Direct Connection on August 09, 2016, 09:50:32 PM
Nice Dark Skin Russian young Man.
:o
Class, today's lesson is entitled: commas are important rofl
OH...MY :o this is going to a really bad place... :)
First to do it....In before lock down rofl chuckles1
I had my eye on that one you got a good deal, nice one man!
You guys are a hoot!!! ::)
Thanks, carbine. I was afraid she was going to slip through my fingers at the last moment.....
BTW, I'm a girl..... rofl
Ooooh boy.... :)) weez done it now!!!
Its a great carbine you got there!
Uh oh...got a little scratch on the left side of the stock...you don't want this one montigre. I'll send my address and you can send it to me. ;)
Seriously, this is a really nice Russian. If you're going to shoot it, she'll attract a lot of attention at the range. Congratulations!
Thanks, Danny. No, I think I can ignore that slight mar--it's just a little extra character enhancement...
Right now I'm in the process of cleaning the goop out and off of the M59 I recently picked up so it will be ready for a little range time once the temps fall below 100*. It has been miserable here; making it even more dangerous with so much more indoor time to peruse the sales.... wink1
I had no idea these SKSs were so bloody habit forming. There should be a Surgeon General's warning provided with each SKS sold!! rofl
Quote from: montigre on August 12, 2016, 09:47:57 AM
I had no idea these SKSs were so bloody habit forming. There should be a Surgeon General's warning provided with each SKS sold!! rofl
Addiction.....you have only scratched the surface of addiction. Your an early stage user, the experimental try it phase, sorry to say it, next step is regular user, just gotta get that rush, stage 3 you get the chemical abuse/branching out phase, looking for the bigger rush.. this is where some guy named the "Enabler" gets ya, while your weak, then your like a meth addict having DTs. There is no denial... remember denial goes hand in hand with addiction. :)
I think Jimmy once said: "I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem."
There are only Russian, Chinese, Yugoslavian, Romanian and Albanian to get (5), East German, North Korean and North Vietnamese property marked if you have deep pockets (8). Oh, Yugoslavian M59 long barrel, M59 standard, M59/66 and M59/66A1 variants...and a Slovenian Honor Guard (12)...oops, gotta get at least one Russian Izhevsk to add to the Tula (13)...oh, there were only 4 years of Romanian M56 production? Might as well collect all 4 (16)...gotta have at least a "ghost", a 2 mil, a 3 mil and a letter gun (19)...and at least one later date spike bayonet (20)...oh and the (23)....and I gotta collect all the Russian years cuz they were the original (33)...aw shucks...just sign me up for that reverse mortgage bat1 chuckles1
Yup, I don't have a problem, but I am an addict thumb1 ....SKSs are kind of a cake walk.. Look at the collectable variants in Mausers and Mosins. :o
Oh, I so hear you...... Going to my LGS today to pick up 2 that I purchased earlier, but on my way there, I have to stop by the PO to grab a MO for the dark beauty I bought a couple of days ago.
And please DO NOT say the "M" word. One of those I am picking up is a Yugo refurbed 98K.... Besplode
Hello, my name is Monti and I am an SKS addict :)
Quote from: montigre on August 12, 2016, 01:54:22 PM
Oh, I so hear you...... Going to my LGS today to pick up 2 that I purchased earlier, but on my way there, I have to stop by the PO to grab a MO for the dark beauty I bought a couple of days ago.
And please DO NOT say the "M" word. One of those I am picking up is a Yugo refurbed 98K.... Besplode
Hello, my name is Monti and I am an SKS addict, and soon to be self professed Mauser addict :)
Watch, it's easy.......Mmmmmmmmauser rofl
A two'fer.... oh, :o your on the accelerated path, combining the two so early, Next will be a Romanian SKS with a M96 Swede, then a Chinese SKS with a Argentine 1891, maybe a Russian with a Brazilian 1908 banana time banana time
I went ahead and fixed it above fer ya... thumb1 Sorry, You set yourself up for this... and pics of the Yugo Mauser are yer first order of buisness... :)
Did somebody say Mausers?! Jonny loves his Mausers...my precious drool2 chuckles1
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/Mausers%20octet.png) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/Mausers%20octet.png.html)
I can't stand it--those mmmma mmma mmmmm (can't do it) are beautiful!!!! drool2
Montigre, You better watch those 2...They'll seem all innocent at 1st then before you know it...you'll be taking a saws-all to cut the catalytic convertor off your car for scrap or strapping the kids to pull harnesses so they can pull 2 push mowers at a time. It'll go from 1-2 milsurps for the weekend, maybe a mauser wednesday, then sure enough you'll be heating the cosmo out of stocks on your dashboard just to get a hit before work in the morning.... rofl rofl
Speaking from experience here. Those 2 were seemingly just talking about a yugo mauser 1 day and before you know it...I can't even open my dang sock drawer without a Tokarev falling out :o :o Still don't know how they managed that 1 :-[
As for the "Enabler"...there's no hope when he starts whispering in your ear. He'll find your weaknesses and lil ole PM's or texts will start popping up. Hard to argue with his logic though...( course I've got a Chinese T53 in parts on the coffee table as we speak, getting ready to main line some of that sweet Albanian cosmo so I might just be an easy target chuckles1 chuckles1)
Wellcome home Montigre...Your among friends thumb1
Quote from: armedhippie on August 12, 2016, 08:01:30 PM
Montigre, You better watch those 2...They'll seem all innocent at 1st then before you know it...
Dang it AH! Quiet down! I'm working here! bat1
Quote from: montigre on August 12, 2016, 07:02:10 PM
I can't stand it--those mmmma mmma mmmmm (can't do it) are beautiful!!!! drool2
They're just nice little Mausers...some of them are quite inexpensive, like the Yugoslavians, Argentinians, Chileans. Aren't the names wonderful and exotic...but they aren't getting any cheaper, you have to grab them when they show up hurry1 They're lonely and want to come home with you. You wouldn't leave a puppy in the street would you? Just pick one up off the shelf, work the action a bit, feel how smooth those late 19th century Mauser bolts glide up and down the rails...examine the rich history of the German Mausers and their plethora of markings and makers, feel the rough hewn wood of the Yugoslavian elm stocks...don't fight it, give into the sweet Cosmoline perfume or cologne...or is that Köln rofl
Ohhh Hippie...I know where a ******** is. :) Shhhhhh... Wasn't me man..
Parden Hippie... He is a full blown crack whore... thumb1. Blames me for all his issues, GMs fault he has no money, GMs fault he eats Ramon Noodles, see denial at work rofl
Shame I'm not home..I'm sure I could add a little temptation.. rofl2
Oh no, there is no salvation. I thought I could just take in a small sampling of the many wondrous offerings; just a hint, mind you, of the joy of going to sleep with the smell of cosmo wafting through the silent darkness....
But NO, it hits, unexpectedly, with the force of collision.
It churns in the pit of the stomach, then creeps up the spine in chilling familiarity...
Overwhelming is it's strength; attacking when least expected
And you try to hide....but
The more you hide, the more persistent it then becomes
After the release of all that's left of your sanity.....you run yet another patch down it's shining bore.....
Hippie gots the ramen famine. eyeball1 eyeball1
rofl
Wait... did they have ramen in 1959/60? read1
Just wait til montigre gets 100 posts and sees how you buncha jokers act in the club house board. whistle12
rofl rofl rofl Good stuff thumb1
Here's a lil example for ya... ( ok might be a lil add-libbing on my part but pretty much exactly what happens :)))
Enabler: So...know how you been jonesing for said ( insert 'bout any mill-surp here...I really am a millsurp "crack whore" rofl)
Me: oh yeah drool2
Enabler: well here ya go..... ( insert gorgeous, affordable sweet millsurp goodness)
Me: eh...man I'd love to but....dang...kids gotta eat
(Now here's how it gets classic 8))
Enabler: No worries man, use the new to you wonderfull goodness to take some game for the kids to eat. 2 birds...1 stone...
Me: Damnit man....( I mean...how do you argue with that logic? sound as all get out)
Before you know it....covered in cosmo, staring at all those gorgeous little stamps Working an action that would make your momma cry.
Do I have a problem.........? Naw....the only time its a problem is when I start jonesing for a new millsurp fix when I'm still wiping the cosmo off my hands from the last 1.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......
Killin me man... killin me!
Hell sometimes it doesn't even take that much Hippie!
GM (aka the enabler): Hey did you see that CZ82 for sale over on gubcoards?
Me: No, I really don't have the $$ for it anyhow. Best not to look.
GM: Ok, whatever floats your boat.
Me: Thanks!
GM (about 5 minutes later): It's probably gone by now anyhow.
GM (after another 5 minutes): One heck of a deal for the guy that will get it though! Maybe next time for you!
Me: Logging onto gunbroker to just take a little look at who bought it. Noticing that no it hasn't been bought yet (dammit), yes it is a darn nice one (dammit), and yes it is a good deal from a seller I trust (damn damn!). Then spending the rest of the night thinking up ways to not get divorced when the wife finds out I just dropped $300 out of the blue on a firearm I hadn't even mentioned in passing to her before.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/funny/omgz.gif)
rofl rofl rofl chuckles1 chuckles1
I know right? rofl
Get him and Phos together and its like having the lil angel and the lil devil on your shoulders but...they're both telling you to get the same thing fart1
The worst is when you can't drive and the wife has to take you everywhere. That's the boat I'm in right now. When you want to stop in at the LGS, she's right over your shoulder telling you that, "No, you cannot have the SKS M." "No, I don't care how rare it may be." "I said no, now pick either the one for $350 or the one for $375." "I'm going to go wait in the car and if you come out with that SKS M or both of the cheaper guns, you're going to have a very long walk home on those crutches." That was the day I bought the /0130b\.
Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! I ain't that bad fellas..
One must fight temptation, be strong, be stable, resist rofl2 Just like I was when faced with a PolyTech M14.. Ok, I failed, but....
Everything I fail at, you all must be better, able to walk away, I try to show you the way, help with your rehab, but everyone falls of the wagon, and for some reason, when I fall off, the wagon runs over me, I ain't figured that out yet... Besides, you will end up like me, way to many...toys, no room, a wife that beats you severely everytime you buy something.
And, hey, at least I find juicy nice good stuff, not some chewed up bubba rawhide bone :)
Now, where locally can I find a Romanian SKS for some Hippie like fella, maybe a another Type 53, and OMG...another Tokarev, thumb1 chuckles1
another example of this weird s/n stamping on stock:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russian-SKS-Wood-Stock-RIFLE-Buttplate-Assembly-Sling-Swivel-IZHEVSK-/252512255993?hash=item3acae73ff9:g:NWkAAOSw65FXvoov
Forum moderator: this is a live auction, I am neither the seller nor know the seller, please remove my post if it's inappropriate.
Meh... The auctions rule is more geared towards complete guns.
Quote from: pcke2000 on August 26, 2016, 11:20:32 AM
another example of this weird s/n stamping on stock:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russian-SKS-Wood-Stock-RIFLE-Buttplate-Assembly-Sling-Swivel-IZHEVSK-/252512255993?hash=item3acae73ff9:g:NWkAAOSw65FXvoov
Forum moderator: this is a live auction, I am neither the seller nor know the seller, please remove my post if it's inappropriate.
I wouldn't say this type of XXX-ing while leaving the date untouched is weird. I think it was standard practice for the Russians to leave stocks that were in generally good shape un-sanded where they didn't have to work them. This is one reason that going solely off something like crossbolt stamps to determine if a gun is 'unrefurbished/unissued/unfired' fails so badly and gets a good many collectors into trouble. You have to take these things combined with the rest of the stock/gun to even try to make a determination. Even then, there are some that are just so nicely done that it's impossible to do anything beyond making a guess.
Quote from: running-man on August 26, 2016, 01:15:23 PM
I wouldn't say this type of XXX-ing while leaving the date untouched is weird. I think it was standard practice for the Russians to leave stocks that were in generally good shape un-sanded where they didn't have to work them. This is one reason that going solely off something like crossbolt stamps to determine if a gun is 'unrefurbished/unissued/unfired' fails so badly and gets a good many collectors into trouble. You have to take these things combined with the rest of the stock/gun to even try to make a determination. Even then, there are some that are just so nicely done that it's impossible to do anything beyond making a guess.
No, RM, the weird stamping I was talking about is the circle around the new stamped number (similar to OP's rifle)
Ahhhh! Now the light bulb goes on, it's still early (well that my excuse anyhow)
Ivan must have hit those larger than normal stamps pretty hard, making an impression from the stamp relief that should not normally be seen:
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5872581/il_fullxfull.327257718.jpg)
I've seen some pretty large stamps used on Russian stocks, this one is almost twice as large as the original S/N stamp:
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Russian/stock_refurb/stock_sanded_overstamp_huge.jpg)
Quote from: running-man on August 26, 2016, 01:15:23 PM
I wouldn't say this type of XXX-ing while leaving the date untouched is weird. I think it was standard practice for the Russians to leave stocks that were in generally good shape un-sanded where they didn't have to work them. This is one reason that going solely off something like crossbolt stamps to determine if a gun is 'unrefurbished/unissued/unfired' fails so badly and gets a good many collectors into trouble. You have to take these things combined with the rest of the stock/gun to even try to make a determination. Even then, there are some that are just so nicely done that it's impossible to do anything beyond making a guess.
This makes sense. In the case of my '54 lightly refurbed Tula, the Russians actually used another 1954 stock to match the other 1954 parts of the gun. The stock had been lightly sanded and the original SN XXX'd out, but you could still vaguely see the date stamp and arsenal mark on the butt stock as well as some of the cross bolt markings (in the right light). I had no idea they would go through such effort when refurbing-- this is impressive.