Hello, first let me thank the admin for the join. A bit about me: I'm a newbie to SKS's so I know what I read on a couple of sites in the last few days. It looks to me as though I've got a Chinese, Military 1968 /26\ sn in the 12M that looks decent, fires nicely I might add and is complete. I read what they say that all in that era are most likely "bringbacks" (where did that name originate?) but not many with documentation. as you can see in my pics i do have documents but dont have the 650 form <-? anyway the rest is legit. So my questions are: exactly what is a "bringback" is it like sports memorabilia--if you have a c.o.a. the stuff is legit? Like, here's my paperwork showing this is a Vietnam war used weapon?
Do I have the correct / enough paperwork to call this a true bringback? I cant tell how the market is on these because people's opinions always get in the way of facts. and gunbroker has some listed for over 2k? if you can also get me in the ball park as value that'd be great. here are pics I covered up name and ssn on papers.
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A bring back is a war trophy. A soldier in Vietnam wanted to take a captured SKS home with him, so you get permission from the government to take it and they issue you the papers which makes it yours to take home.
The rifle you have, is a 1967 12million serial Chinese SKS. I do believe it is a legit bring back, because all of the 12mil bring backs I have seen have the inverted take down lever at the back. The imported 12mil guns have a standard take down lever. Your rifle should also have no import stampings anywhere.
As for value, the gun itself is a $400 gun. Papered bring backs usually sell for 700-800 bucks, to a buyer who appreciates the added value of the paperwork. There are people ASKING way more, but they don't sell that high. Your paperwork looks plenty legit.
Hope this helps.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq18/mikota40/sks/PHOTO_20160903_184624_zpsqnfk8ro6.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/mikota40/media/sks/PHOTO_20160903_184624_zpsqnfk8ro6.jpg.html)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq18/mikota40/sks/PHOTO_20160903_184603_zpsqxklcs0l.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/mikota40/media/sks/PHOTO_20160903_184603_zpsqxklcs0l.jpg.html)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq18/mikota40/sks/PHOTO_20160903_184523_zps8vvnds8t.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/user/mikota40/media/sks/PHOTO_20160903_184523_zps8vvnds8t.jpg.html)
Managed to get your paper pics before PB crashed on me. Will get a few more eyes on it. Nice man thumb1 Believe Surge got ya covered.
Well, you got bonus points for creative censoring with the Q-Tips for sure, I haven't seen that done before! :)
That is a damn fine looking bringback...it looks to have been in great condition, and stayed that way after what likely was many years of not being used. Ammo for these was rare as hen's teeth when this first made it here, so many of these became neglected rustbuckets over time. Yours looks well cared for.
A 12 million SN SKS was made in 1967, so that fits. It looks like a legitimate complete set of original paperwork with yellowed, creased paper and purple ink. You have the DD Form 603-1-LRA War Trophy form dated Oct 19, 1970, showing his first tour as stretching from Jan 1970 to Jan 1971 and the US export form dated Nov 6, 1970. The Vietnamese export form appears to be dated August 15, 1971 (15/8/1971), 7 months after his initial tour dates, suggests that he did a second tour consecutive to the first tour.
Is firing it wearing it out/making the value go down? I only really put about 2-3 clips through per year..
I've only shot it three times now so about 9 clips.
2-3 clips per year wouldn't wear it out in any of our life times....but What you have there is a very collectable piece of history. Things do happen, bad ammo and such, falling out the truck etc...I'd suggest grabbing you another (or 3 :))) SKSs for some shooters and just keeping that 1 as a "fondle piece". It is cool to be able to shoot a piece of history though but I would lean other wise, These puppies are built like tanks, so barring some accident, it should be fine.
I wouldn't shoot that one anymore. A good Chinese made shooter can be had in the $300-$350 range, if you look around for it. A truly certified Vietnam bring back, in the condition yours is in, is a rare find. If it were mine, it would be hanging in a display case in my mancave.
Quote from: mikota40 on September 04, 2016, 12:03:28 PM
Is firing it wearing it out/making the value go down? I only really put about 2-3 clips through per year..
Nope...These guns have already been through much more abuse than what we would subject them to at a regular range outing, but I am like you and do not wish to devalue collectable pieces through some unforeseen accident. So what I did to solve this problem was to pick up a less collectable SKS that can still be fairly easily replaced should some crazy accident happen and take that to the range for pleasure. 8)
BTW, that's a very nice bringback you have there!!!! thumb1
I'm certainly far from an expert on bringback papers. I don't see anything that raises serious doubt though. I'll be posting the August GB reports for papered bringbacks in the The Trinity Rifles (https://clone.sks-files.com/index.php?board=22.0) section later this month. So far (halfway through sorting the Chinese) I see at least three sold, all roughly around the $1k mark. Yours is every bit the specimen I think. The right presentation and the right bidder are necessary to hit that mark perhaps, but I think yours could make a pretty good go at it.
I would not fire this gun anymore. Too easy to get a popped primer that could mangle a firing pin or even fracture the boltface. Just not worth it when there are so many $200 Bubba'd Chinese SKSs out there.
mikota40, I noticed that in the shoutbox you said you're in northern Maryland. Are you in western, central, or eastern? The reason that I ask is that J&S Pawn in Ridgeley, WV is getting SKS carbines through their store all the time. If you're in northwestern MD, they also have a location in Frostburg. If you find a SKS in the Ridgeley store, they may be able to transport it to the Frostburg store. That's if you want to find one for use as a shooter. Btw, if you do go that route and you're a vet, active service, or a LEO, make sure you make that known to get their 7% discount. They basically eat the tax with their discount.
thanks thats really nice to know , I am a veteran and can always use a discount.
BTW im in north central MD. on the mason dixon line near Gettysburg pa. I'm considering selling this SKS, as I got a lot of guns from my father and if like you say Running man if I could get a thousand I think I'd part with it.
This was your fathers?... Your father brought it back?
If it was your dad's and he brought it over, you should hang on to that one. I'd love to have any of the guns that my dad, step-dad, or grandfather had but it's not in the cards for me.
I agree with the others that as your dad's bring back, I'd hold onto it. I have a couple of old German swords that my father brought back when he was serving in WWII. One is a common SS officer's parade sword and the other is a much older Prussian sword dating back to the time of Napoleon's invasion. Since my father is no longer living, these serve as a reminder for me of a piece of his life's story.
yeah i guess you guys are right I should hold on to it . Thank you all for the help Its very interesting finding out about the many different aspects of the same rifle and nice to know exactly what I have.
Wow! I didn't realize your dad brought it back. The value just moved into the priceless category! +10 to the chorus of hold onto it thumb1
Sell it and....
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Oh, gotta love Achmed...hahaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBBGDGHLpHQ
Quote from: mikota40 on September 04, 2016, 08:04:13 AM
: exactly what is a "bringback" is it like sports memorabilia--if you have a c.o.a. the stuff is legit?
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In 1944 Gen. MacArthur issued an order allowing for and regulating the keeping of war trophies by soldiers in the Far East. This order is known as Circular No. 21 USAFFE.
Soon afterward, the War Department expanded on the order to ensure that the humane treatment of enemy wounded and dead was observed while we collected our bringbacks, as dictated by the Geneva Convention. For instance, no personal effects or insignia could be removed from prisoners, wounded, or dead. Only military equipment could be obtained as a bringback, insofar as it didn't undermine US military intelligence. This is known as Circular No. 353, WD. It dictates that all captured enemy material not useful to US intelligence may be retained by a soldier, so long as it is released by the commanding intelligence officer. This is where the paperwork we associate with "bringbacks" comes into play. The US military cozied up to US customs, and got them to agree to allow anything into the country that has the bringback documents. It's definitely not uncommon to find US Customs paperwork accompanying a bringback package.
In 1945, another circular was published that disallowed automatic weapons to be taken as trophies.
One of the interesting phrases in those circulars is "In order to improve the morale of forces in the theaters of operations, the retention of war trophies is...authorized." In a nutshell, we started allowing and regulating bringbacks but did our best to adhere to the rules of war and not come off as plunderers. When I see all of the German and Japanese spoils of war available in the marketplace, it's sometimes hard not to think of the Allies as looting marauders.
At any rate, some collectors are tepid about the existence of paperwork. Some find it to be a fascinating and valuable addition. I'd fall into the latter category and
Quote from: rwhite135 on September 04, 2016, 01:04:42 PM
I wouldn't shoot that one anymore... A truly certified Vietnam bring back, in the condition yours is in, is a rare find. If it were mine, it would be hanging in a display case in my mancave.
I could not agree with that any more wholeheartedly. thumb1
You have an intensely cool SKS with what looks to be rock solid provenance. I'm sorry that I can't contribute anything too concrete on it, I've never studied Vietnam era bringbacks.
Thanks again fellas, I'm definitely going to keep it.