So.... M08s NK sale and the cleaning kit that went with it got me looking at random kits I have.
Here is my issue. The NK kit that yooper shows looks like this.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/mrcoinring/mrcoinring002/Screenshot_20170527-115133.png)
It shows this kit as the ONLY sks kit having no hook tabs attached to the cap... just a simple cap. It also has a raised rim on the body just behind the cap when the cap is installed.
While looking around, I find these.... Just looking at the bodies for now because god only knows what has/can me swapped out with these things. Also note the body slits, and the cap knurling etc.
Amazon says Polish AK
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Ucnu010PL._AC_UL320_SR308,320_.jpg)
Amazon/Ultamate Arms Gear says SKS, but I am sure its AK
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611LDrROcmL._SL1110_.jpg)
It would seem to me that Yooper is showing a widely available AK kit....
Now lets look at the one that sold with M08s NK.... Look closely as you can see the body slits are a bit dif, this one having a larger hole/slit closer to the end of the body.
(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/642470000/642470467/pix343259341.jpg)
(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/642470000/642470467/pix846761592.jpg)
(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/642470000/642470467/pix526800964.jpg)
But, but.... Here you can buy the same kit. Sold as AK once again. ??? The square hole is opposite of M08s rounded hole pic... you can see it. Both units have a large square and rounded hole opposite of each other.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/775202/military-surplus-buttstock-cleaning-kit-ak-47-762x39mm-grade-2
(https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/alt1/775/775202.jpg)
Ok, note the NK kit on yooper is said to have a poker tool that attaches to the flat/wide flat-tip driver deal, but i can find those with various AK kits also!
So, what does all this mean?
I only know of one NK thats like new still loaded with cosmo. I asked the owner to pull it out and send me some pics. Should see what his looks like by tomorrow.
I got nothing :o
But, from a logistical point of view, there are 100+million Aks used by 100+ different nations, plus how many millions of SKSs also produced by several nations, now both weapon systems pretty much share the same kit. So... how does one with certainty say.. who's is what, this fits this or that, when just how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of surplused kits alone, even new production facsimiles show up to this day, just like slings, mags, etc. have been imported, possibly mislabled to gain attention, move them along and clear out the stock piles or mixed around over what.....the past 30+ years.
If it comes outta a NK butthole, does that mean it's fer sure a NK... way back in the day, it might have been traded for a piece of "Boom Boom" in the backwoods of a little communist jungle nation, and replaced with an NVA/Chinese, or a EG, or even a Romanian at a later date. Even the solider who brought said rifle back, could have found a random kit in the road a tank missed and shoved it up inside, or even stuck a gunshow special kit in it 25 years later to complete the set. How many conscripts, soldiers, owners, importers, exporters, end users have swapped mixed and matched, traded and lost their cleaning kits. Right now on the Fleabay I bet their are at least 75+ kits all claiming it fits or goes with this or that.
I think the only way to say for sure is to catch them rolling off the assembly line in their respective country..after that, it's all a best guess.
The biggest problem with kits is that they are less playful and cute when they grow into cats.
All four NK SKSs I've had in the past have had the same style kit as pictured above.
It will be interesting to see if the pics that you have coming will match.
And as GM has stated, who knows if they are actually made in NK. Perhaps sublets from China for all we know.
I haven't seen any sks kit that looks like these without the hook deals coming down off the cap. All looking like these are clearly AK. My issue is as GM points out. A rifle picked up in Nam, used US market, or both can have..... anything put in them. I see this simply as yet another misleading/unfortunate circumstance where pooperJ sends folks on a wild goose-chase and chasing tails simply because someone sent him a pic of a kit that came out of a NK. What a shame. bat1
'If' NK managed to acquire kits from another country of manufacture welp, that would make them NOT NK kits. Heck, mine didnt come with one.... perhaps thats the way they came originally. :-X
Only got to check the butts of about 12 sks I have out in the open.... Looks like I hit paydirt. Twice!
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/mrcoinring/mrcoinring002/IMG_20170527_133448734.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/mrcoinring/mrcoinring002/IMG_20170527_133530610.jpg)
thumb1 thumb1 6 more and you become a licensed proctologist rofl2
Quote from: Greasemonkey on May 27, 2017, 02:44:45 PM
thumb1 thumb1 6 more and you become a licensed proctologist rofl2
I agree, looking at too many "butt kits" can soon become a very uuh, well lets just say, a very smelly and "stickey" profession! :))
Cannon just wants to get the butt kit situation verified for each nation. Sounds like a good sksfiles member data project. thumb1
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on May 27, 2017, 07:23:18 PM
Cannon just wants to get the butt kit situation verified for each nation. Sounds like a good sksfiles member data project. thumb1
Well, since you seem to be on it already and probably have more info on it then the rest of us, I volunteer you for the project! :) Carry on, you seem to be doing a good job at it so far! thumb1
Nope... I just started looking at them. No tellin what I have shoved in this butt or that butt.
Its better as a group discussion so that the community can can confirm/deny kit allocation. 8) I can only add to the discussion with rifle examples still loaded with cosmo including the butt.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on May 27, 2017, 07:41:25 PM
Nope... I just started looking at them. No tellin what I have shoved in this butt or that butt.
Its better as a group discussion so that the community can can confirm/deny kit allocation. 8) I can only add to the discussion with rifle examples still loaded with cosmo including the butt.
The horror I say, the horror! :o I dont need to know what you be shoving up any butt here or there! Spare me the details please! "Butt", yes you are correct in leaving it up to the community as to what they have shoved up "their butt"! :o rofl
I didn't go digging....had other stuffs to do....but, I did find this shoved up in my WASR2.
Same style cap, same star style folded bottom, same kink in the tube below the cap.....
Cleaning kit for a North Romavianchissian Type AKSKS 45/47.56-74 rifle maybe... rofl2
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Romanian%20sks/WASR2/0527171551a_zpsj86oqa2p.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Romanian%20sks/WASR2/0527171551a_zpsj86oqa2p.jpg.html)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Romanian%20sks/WASR2/0527171552a_zps2vopwm3u.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Romanian%20sks/WASR2/0527171552a_zps2vopwm3u.jpg.html)
Okay, maybe I need to start pulling out "things shoved up my butts" to check them out, take some pics, and post them up. :)
Since when is YooperJ right about anything SKS? rofl chuckles1 :))
I think I will just leave this right here! chuckles1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07P538K83iU
Well, i cant help you, even with russians. All my cleaning kits have been in an ammo pouch when i brought the gun, or loose in a ziploc bag where the guy went back and went, pouch, pouch, oiler, kit from the crate.
If i remember rightly every sks i have brought 'new' has been missing something accessory wise
I know the Russian kits never had the AK screwdriver tool....only one late Russian had one show up in it's butt...info also from Yoopers...personally, I find that to be an SKS that had its backside sullied by more than it's first piercing...
The proper kit for a 59/66 also does not have the ears on the lid, as those are meant to lock around the FSB for use as a muzzle protector which ain't happening with all that business up front....and they also are brass....those are neat to hunt down.
I can also confirm after fingering my poor Cherry's butthole that I STILL am on the hunt for one of those....scratch that...two, as my eldest Yugo has a vacant butthole...damn it. I can confirm also that whilst diddling my Cherry's nethers...the friggin lid came off....and I can feel the damned ears on the M59 kit's lid...double damn it. It is going to be hard to extricate that from a virgin. It is all my fault though...she came with a buttcherry....no kit....I was the fool that stuck it in backwards. banghead1
I additionally can confirm I have 25 random kits inbound....I love people who list things stupidly. It helps to pay for my habit....and might make for interesting conversation later in this thread when they arrive....
This all reminds me of a recent time when I pulled all of my spike bayonets to check for differences from year to year...only to realize through all of my bubba incarnations, I had to do patina matching to get everybody their proper prong again.
Would the M59/66 really need a muzzle protector/cap?
Given the actual rifling starts what, 2-2 1/2 inches down in the launcher spigot, where as "normal" SKS the rifling and crown are right there and would/could/should benefit from a muzzle protector during cleaning. Technically, on the M59/66 the barrel crown is or would be protected from haphazard lopsided cleaning rod wear and a M59/66 has the same sized butthole as a M59, so would a specific kit been issued or would they all use the same kit across the board?
Just looking around the interweb... Brass pieces seems to favor Yugoslavia, like Justin said, the AK kits seem to have the 2 piece multitool that wouldn't have too much use on an SKS.
And a biggie, just to throw a kink in the works :) ........ A 5.45mm cleaning kit while visually similar can be deceiving, in the WASR kit I posted above, I found the bore brush would fit and work fine, but it has a 30cal jag which is of absolutely "NO" use on the smaller caliber, it won't even fit the bore.
So now..... maybe there is a distinct possibility of having another type of cleaning kit thrown in the mix, quite a few nations adopted the AK74 that also used the AK47. Many AK74 variants were brought into the states, along with parts, pieces, slings and cleaning kits, so it should be pretty common to find one, I know the 5.45 also has a thinner cleaning rod, but cleaning kits could just as easily be made to fit the 5.45 and could or would possibly even be backwards compatible with the 7.62. Logistically it makes sense, how do you clean your 5.45 with a 7.62 kit, you really can't, but you could easily reverse that and get the job done with one kit on two different calibered weapons, so in laymens terms it would look more like a .22 cleaning kit vs a 30 cal cleaning kit. I'm sure even the cleaning rod threaded ends were universally the same on both as well. And also, if I had to guess, the 5.45 and the limited amount of 5.56 Aks, these would also have no issues interchanging.
This is how much size difference there is between a 5.45 and 7.62...
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Romanian%20sks/WASR2/SAM_2628_zpscb4effse.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Romanian%20sks/WASR2/SAM_2628_zpscb4effse.jpg.html)
And just for gits and shiggles.......lets see what happens when you go to a former source and importer of Chinese weapons, one of the leading Chinese weapons parts retailers still left, KFS or PolyTechparts, yup, even they have 2 different, separate kits listed for each:
This is listed as a Chinese Ak cleaning kit..
http://stores.polytechparts.com/ak47-cleaning-kit-chinese-ak-rifle-fits-polytech/
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-yp39j5/49nwyat/products/827/images/1004/70-F10__82734.1384173314.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
This is the kit shown for the Chinese SKS
http://stores.polytechparts.com/sks-original-cleaning-kit-chinese-polytech-type-56-rifle/
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-yp39j5/49nwyat/products/723/images/903/60-FJ-10__11093.1384173302.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
Unfortunately, still waiting on pics of the kit coming outta a greasy fresh NK.
Dont forget to figure out who issues brass brushed vs nylon and for which years etc
Here you have it... From the most pristine cosmo loaded NK I know of. Thanks to Bob Hanes
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/mrcoinring/mrcoinring002/CD5FADAD-5206-4ED2-BB95-F7ED345C4314.jpg)
Looks kinda like every other kit, but I'd guess it is closer than some of the examples shown in the OP. Shame they don't have a makers mark, factory stamp, serial or something on them.
But it even still entertains the question...what happened or was done between it's final acceptance stamp born on date, shipping, being issued/used, inspected and greased up for storage and the date it was captured, or even after capture? There is always that unknown variable, was the kit missing by chance before storage, found on an inspection and a random one added buy someone before the storage grease up? Without catching one as it rolls off the assembly line or straight from a factory sealed crate, it really is hard to tell.
It is human built, a human could have forgotten to shove one in at assembly, a human solider/owner/capturer could have lost it, a human could have even swapped/mixed it up somewhere, a human could have even packed a random kit up in it after capture out of or even in country.
Look here what I dug out of my butt! :o
Well actually the butt of my K Sports SKS. rofl
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/roughneck2e/000_0907_zpsh3m59ssd.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/roughneck2e/media/000_0907_zpsh3m59ssd.jpg.html)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/roughneck2e/000_0908_zpsrzmm7eyk.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/roughneck2e/media/000_0908_zpsrzmm7eyk.jpg.html)(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/roughneck2e/000_0909_zpsb5omr30h.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/roughneck2e/media/000_0909_zpsb5omr30h.jpg.html)(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f302/roughneck2e/000_0910_zps4pmbqhty.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/roughneck2e/media/000_0910_zps4pmbqhty.jpg.html)
Got Conundrums?
Yep.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/SKSFILES/kits%201.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/SKSFILES/kits%201.jpg.html)
I found this one to be of particular interest...anyone know what this extra tool is for?
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/SKSFILES/kits%202.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/SKSFILES/kits%202.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/SKSFILES/kits%203.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/SKSFILES/kits%203.jpg.html)
Gas port cleaner? ???
dntknw1
At first I thought that, but since it also has a gas port reamer, I thought maybe some kind of sight adjustment tool?
Was there anything else besides SKS and AKs using this type of cleaning kit? Two of the 25 have these, only one has both tools....and a huge variety of brushes.
Two have knurled caps, none have the tampon applicator folding at the end...but some have...well, dimples on the end of the tube....also a huge variety of differences there too, all of them are a little different on the bottom of the tube than what I am familiar with. The tubes in general, all have the same holes....
I am curious that when in service, whenever the opportunity arose if either new kits, or more likely brushes were made available?
I have seen an Ak gas port tool/reamer/cleaner that was square, there are some that look more like a broke bolt extractor, usually they are bent like this one, with a square end.
https://www.apexgunparts.com/ak-gas-port-reamer-new.html
Looking at the size difference between those 2 port cleaners, bet one will fit an SKS gas port easy, the other won't or will fit really tight if it does, usually an Ak has a slightly bigger gas port. A Para SKS also typically has a larger port than a normal SKS due to the shorter barrel, this is why one sees people chopping the barrel, then opening the gas port.
The bigger one actually looks like a reamer. I was also under the impression the pointed tool was a common tool for going through the cleaning rod hole to lock the rod to the kit casing as a handle, flipping take town levers, punching out FP retaining pins etc.
So might the couple that have these possibly been AK kits, but without the screwdriver pokey thing?
I haven't checked yet, but that does seem a little large for an SKS gas port...and as well used these kits are, I doubt they came from any commercial paras...many of which didn't even have a cleaning kit anyway...the variety of brushes makes me think various parts of kits were available as replacements as needed...perhaps some AK reamers got mixed in?
I also wonder if these may have been the missing kits many of the recent imports were lacking perhaps? They seem to look the part of those well broken in guns. I think those might be their only selling point...who wants a brand new kit in an old war horse?
My consensus leads me to believe these were SKS kits, but I don't know anything about what the old AK kits may have been like. I just usually see that screwdriver thingy and/or a spare pin and chalk it up to being an AK kit.
These are all SKS kits and look to be Chinese. The AK kits do not have the 'prong tabs' attached to the cap.
You notice the hole through the rear shank of the reamer to put the poker tool in for leverage?
Here is mine it was in the butt of the IO SKS along with a piece of brown gauze nested below the cleaning kit. Will never know haw it got there.
(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj624/donp326/Resized%20image%201.jpg) (http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/donp326/media/Resized%20image%201.jpg.html)
(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj624/donp326/resized%20image%202.jpg) (http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/donp326/media/resized%20image%202.jpg.html)