Gentlemen - I picked this up not long ago -
In reading I understand this might be of Romanian heritage -
Hoping to shed more/new lights to this item -
Unfortunately for me - I no longer have a Romanian SKS - Something I need to look for again -
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5603/15480468461_92c3978bd9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzXrWD)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3949/15480468741_9fe02d3b4d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzXs2t)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3938/15483252792_a58e94a282_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pAcHCm)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2947/15460506066_e99c1cc349_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pyc8Pq)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5604/15480470161_0707ed0252_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzXsrX)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5604/15483253502_470b365f5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pAcHQA)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3940/15296964858_df11523893_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/piJWHq)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3949/15483616005_7973f8deb4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pAezAD)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3953/15296712449_f2f489a8cb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/piHDFx)
Yup... thats what it is. Not to much to state or find out about it. Neat little accessory.
How did it get here? How many? Were they on guns then removed?
This was sold to me as an NK unit that supposedly came off an NVA SKS - We know that's not fact -
Quote from: Saigon1965 on October 21, 2014, 10:36:03 PM
How did it get here? How many? Were they on guns then removed?
This was sold to me as an NK unit that supposedly came off an NVA SKS - We know that's not fact -
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u604/mspeth23/imagejpg1_zps80be8121.jpg)
Actually... I should elaborate.
These are thought to be for the Romanian sks BUT, some have reason to believe the story is a dealer fabrication and they may actually be for an FAL.
Interesting - I don't have a FAL handy - Will have to ask a friend to bring his over -
Any one in particular?
I dunno.... read it on a gunboards thread at one time. Could have been another FN rifle? I cant seem to find the thread right now.
No facts have surfaced about these launchers but one thing is for sure they fit the SKS like a glove
8)......................Joe
I'm not up to date on spigot launchers, No clue who made the OP's launcher, but I still wonder if it's actually what the claims are.
I mean aside from the mounting method, the sight it self looks an awfully like this one, maybe an earlier/later revision, manufactured for or by another nation.
Bulgarian FN FAL and FN 49, both FN rifles were used by many nations, maybe, just maybe. With no conformation, written on paper, signed in blood, we may never know.
Till then, ALIENS thumb1
FN 49 launcher
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/none/GLfn491_zps3edf5f60.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/none/GLfn491_zps3edf5f60.jpg.html)
Bulgarian FN FAL launcher
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/none/SDC100162_zpsca2ae329.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/none/SDC100162_zpsca2ae329.jpg.html)
And something else that really kinda bugs me :o
Most semi/full auto rifles capable of firing a grenade have a gas shut off provision integrated into the design. With most rifles, they have a limited powder charge, any gases wasted in operating/cycling the action is wasted during the firing of a grenade, a gas shut off negates this, allowing the full gas volume to propel the grenade.
Not a complete list, just to name a few, rifles are typically designed for such duty:
A bolt action need not apply here.
FN FAL
French Mas 49/56
Yugo M59/66
Yugo M70
Polish Kbkg wz. 1960/72
Hungarian AMP-69
M-14
Even the M1 Garand with an M7 launcher cuts the gas off.
OH, lookie there, a North Korean SKS has a gas shut off as well.
NOW :o, I'll get to my point, what is missing from a Romanian SKS???
And, in it's native state would it be nearly as efficient at launching a grenade any distance as a Yugo M59/66??
Is there a Romanian SKS with a gas shut off for use of such a device??
I don't know, but on the last two questions, I'm guessing not!!
^, thumb1 +1
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 21, 2014, 11:09:06 PM
I dunno.... read it on a gunboards thread at one time. Could have been another FN rifle? I cant seem to find the thread right now.
here is one link,
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?221294-SKS-detachable-spiggot-launcher-Pictures-Added (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?221294-SKS-detachable-spiggot-launcher-Pictures-Added)
And this quote
QuoteThey were sold by I.M.A. (in NJ) about 10 or 12 years ago (for $29 if I'm not mistaken).
in the above link kind of eliminates North Korea, think for a second, when if ever, have we to imported something from there or they exported to the U.S.
So lets say North Korea is out based on trade and animosity, the Romanian SKS could be out as well, no gas shut off valve makes for a very inefficient launcher.
Ok, Like I have stated and condensed in one post, what or how you deal with my opinion on this subject, it's just that, an opinion. thumb1
My opinion #1- The Romanian SKS does not have a gas shutoff valve. Laws of physics can't be broken, gases, electricity and fluids all take the path of least resistance. In this case, an unblocked wide open gas port. Plus, what ever pressure is lost during the action cycling. One way around it, is a very high gas volume cartridge, something to equal out the gas volume lost, but then it would be even nastier back blast as the action cycled.
The average 22mm anti tank grenade is pretty beefy, a NATO M31 HEAT is 25 ounces, the Yugoslavian M60 HEAT grenade used on the Yugoslavian M59/66 is around 21 ounces. Now stick one or the other on the launcher with a small x39 rifle cartridge coupled with no gas shut off, if it does launch, you could possibly be in the blast area after you get a face full of hot gases. If it does actually go some distance, it could be severely limited in range, again, due to gas losses. The smoke and night light grenades were a little lighter in weight, even at 16 ounces, thats still a full pound.
My opinion #2- if these were actually imported as some have said at some point, this completely eliminates North Korea, nuff said!!!
My opinion #3- This one is quite a stretch, if Romania issued these for this purpose, has a single rifle been seen with markings where the thumb screw mounts. Damaged blueing, distorted metal, even scratches for mounting and unmounting it. I'm asking, because they would have had to have practiced with it at some point, there by mounting it, I'm sure firing would have had some effect with it moving around at least some and removing it afterward. My Finnish M39 rifle bears the marks of a blank fire adapter on the muzzle, so a grenade launcher should leave something. Now, before you cry refurb, come on, my three Romanians have worn bluing, most do so they didn't grind this or that, smooth out nicks and bumps.
My opinion #4- Type METRE in to a language translator for Romanian, it comes out METRU, at least the 6 translators I tried did, METRE is a UK spelling.
My opinion #5- It bears a striking resemblance to a FAL launcher, "if" IMA did import these who is to say back in the day, they weren't like Classic Arms used to be. Make stuff that didn't previously exist, like a chromed Tokarev or Mosin and call it something cool and mount it on a Romanian SKS. Is it a BubbaGump grenade launcher? May explain the lack of any type of factory stamps or markings. Now, if they had mounted it on a Russian SKS years and years ago when they were done, today, it would be known as Russian SKS grenade launcher.
My opinion #6, and my last one :) who has the documentation and physical proof? Photos?? Anything to say with out a doubt, these are in fact 100% absolutely lay your hand on the bible and swear on your own grave :o, it's Romanian. If you will, I might tell you where Hoffa is actually buried.
Again, these are my opinions, if I'm wrong, ok, I'm used to it, 20 years of marriage, I don't really care. chuckles1 But, then again no one has gotten around the Laws of Physics.
Holy Crap!!!
I am now convinced this is NOT Romanian, nor was it originally intended for use o an sks. If you chop off the rear portion of that FN49 and notch it out for an sks... bam, instant fairy-tale. :o
I am going with GMs #5 on this one.... good thing we have a wide range of knowledge on this board, and members who can research their ars off in the name of truth.
Great info Gents -
I picked it up simply due to the neat factor -
Thanks to the web - Everything will be documented -
Boy, this thread is so much less grumpy here.
Quote from: Justin Hell on October 26, 2014, 01:40:56 AM
Boy, this thread is so much less grumpy here.
Well I tried to not be grumpy, but it didn't work. Just wanna throw my hands in the air like I just don't care. Maybe just go take my happy meds, go slam my head in my car door, Woooosssssaaaaa and enhance my inner calm. thumb1 chuckles1 chuckles1
Quote from: Greasemonkey on October 26, 2014, 02:30:13 AM
Quote from: Justin Hell on October 26, 2014, 01:40:56 AM
Boy, this thread is so much less grumpy here.
Well I tried to not be grumpy, but it didn't work. Just wanna throw my hands in the air like I just don't care. Maybe just go take my happy meds, go slam my head in my car door, Woooosssssaaaaa and enhance my inner calm. thumb1 chuckles1 chuckles1
Seemed to me like you were the only one raising valid questions and inciting discussion...unfortunately discussion over there is like a bunch of old ladies fighting over bingo results.
One thing of interest...
The GL in question appears to have two little holes on the sides of the ladder itself down dear the attachment point. It would seem to me these two holes are orientated to each other and the pivoting point of the ladder in a manor suggesting there (should) be some sort of detent mechanism to prevent the ladder from freely swinging. It does not appear to have any such provisions on the body itself to operate with these holes for securing the ladder in its respective up/down positions. :-\
This leads me to think (insert someone here) utilized two different components to make this critter from parts that would have otherwise not be mated originally.
I am guilty of always thinking this was Romanian because I simply thought everyone has done the research already. I have been too consumed with Chinese riddles to bother, and likely will remain so. I have no idea who made this thing or why, but its worth investigating and I believe Carl has brought up some VERY interesting and valid points.
I don't even care, it is what they say, if they its a South African sex toy, so be it it. Discussion don't do anything, it don't prove anything when both parties will not hear, listen or even read. My valid arguments still stand, until such a time when the Laws of Physics can be broken, why even make a failure. Anyways, if they won't put money where their mouth is, its's whatever. Not willing to back their claims, fine, if they are correct, they would stand to gain so much more than if I'm correct, simpley because, I don't really care.
If this is the future of collecting, because I said so, guess I need to find another hobby. Maybe knitting or something would work, nice and calm, never hear old women argue over which stitch is better. They just sit and knit.
Quote from: Greasemonkey on October 26, 2014, 09:27:16 AMIf this is the future of collecting, because I said so, guess I need to find another hobby. Maybe knitting or something would work, nice and calm, never hear old women argue over which stitch is better. They just sit and knit.
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh618/smithdblueDannyboy53/Odds%20and%20ends/Knittingmachine_zps5f207e26.jpg)
Mated together with a Chinese -
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5615/15798493986_48fac3aca3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q54pRm)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7496/15823710452_2f3afdab4b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q7hDQ1)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7544/15637302890_6e6efd2f64_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPPgmw)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7475/15202726073_10c8c707f0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/papWNM)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5611/15636975387_1dafe3754e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPMzZV)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15637299470_68bc1cc30d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPPfky)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15823704582_73d6ac16fc_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q7hC5N)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7507/15636732698_b3ccf8d31f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPLkRC)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7559/15823702532_6d2321a541_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q7hBts)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7489/15822144515_6e5fa5559e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q79Ck6)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7470/15637293290_4f167f06eb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPPdv1)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/15822156065_9d910511cd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q79FLe)
Ok, great, congratulations thumb1, it fits a Chinese clap1, which means it also fits a Yugoslavian M59, a Russian SKS 45, Polish SKS, East German Karabiner-S, Albanian, NVA and a Romanian M56, and possibly something else we don't know about or something uber rare that’s here, and those that have one won't measure it to preserve the myth and protect their investment.
So, the big question, are we still suffering from the proverbial "because the truth is what I say it is, and that I say it fits a Romanian SKS" syndrome or has a new recent revelation came forward changing the game.
Still, the Chinese ain't got no gas shut off, you still can't beat the physics by changing the rifle. chuckles1
I find it a bit interesting the amount of gap between the barrel and gl at the rear right portion.... right where the "wingnut" presses against the rifle. In fact, the rear OD "tolerances" are so large that you can actually see the gl be canted to the left when tightened down. I thought this thing was supposed to fit "like a glove"? :-\
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15637299470_68bc1cc30d_b.jpg)
Stole the words right out of my.. keyboard.
Anyone tried this on a European AK of non yugo decent?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on November 19, 2014, 11:11:21 AM
Anyone tried this on a European AK of non yugo decent?
Most standard AK's have thinner barrel than SKS's, except Chicoms which have the same. Try it on a Chinese AK
The barrel diameter isnt reall whats important here.... it clamps to the fsb.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on November 19, 2014, 12:04:08 PM
The barrel diameter isnt reall whats important here.... it clamps to the fsb.
I figure it would have some importance wouldn't it? It still slips on the muzzle right?
Most measurements are real close :o These were just quick measurements I had scribbled down on a paper a while back for S&Gs
Standard issue Chinese SKS:
front sight width .433
cleaning rod holder width .390
barrel dia. .551
frt. sight base to muzzle .485
collar diameter behind front sight .622
Czech Vz58:
front sight width .462
bayonet lug width .468
threaded barrel diameter .538
frt. sight base to muzzle end .523
frt sight barrel collar(its tapered) .672 front .685 rear
barrel dia behind sight base .593
Chinese MAK90 (typically a heavier built weapon than European counter parts)
front sight width .463
barrel dia .552
frt sight barrel collar dia. .752
front sight base to muzzle end .574
barrel dia behind front sight .617
No lug or cleaning rod
What else did I learn, well a MAK 90 and a press fit Chinese SKS possibly share the same barrel, the AK being shorter of course, A story for another day rofl
Me thinks it could very well fit an AK variant.
This pic was sent to me from Tex.....
It is of another GL like in the OP that was thought to be romanian. I do not see a ramanian arrow in triangle here. This is an broad arrow only. Interestingly enough, this broad arrow is an Australian acceptance mark commonly found on enfields etc. So I decided to search for enfield GL and found they had ones VERY similar and a few variations. Not surprisingly the enfield GLs were manufactured buy, yup... you guessed it... Belgium. A nato country producing similar but varying GLs for themselves (fn49) and the enfield pattern rifles. I truly do wonder what nato rifle this may fit.
The mark... found on a GL like the one in the OP.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Romgl5.jpg)
Shown here on an enfield... broad arrow mark is the acceptance into Australian military.
(http://www.mikescampfire.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/broad_arrow-300x225.jpg)
One of the Enfield GLs(https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/catalog/EnfieldGrenade.JPG)
The FN49 GL(https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/catalog/GLfn49.1.jpg)
I think there is little doubt this thing is Belgian manufactured.... it may possible it fit a Nato countries rifle of some sort.
We still talking about this thing? ???
Recently read where someone had done a write-up detailing everything that had already been researched and presented moths ago. His grand superior assessment after a novels worth of reading was.... wait for it..... INCONCLUSIVE.
I know.... shocker right. rofl
Me thinks someone needs to start looking at the T63/68 as Carl has suggested before, and a few other candidates before assuming its for the sks simply because it fits an sks.
lol, inconclusive ey? what good is debating and trying to figure something out if all you ever come up with is "inconclusive"? Sure, some things we aren't able to figure out but yeah, let's do a 10 page write up of everything already stated just to "conclude" absolutely nothing.
Nothing new
And for the record..... To conclude Romanian status by the example seen in this thread showing illegible stampings is an enormous reach. The only half legible stamp I see is a well known (broad arrow) of Australian origin. Doesn't exactly support the Romanian theory.