LC and I have been discussing this one off and on for a little while now and I've thought about doing this for several years myself. With the data we have now compiled, I *think* this is actually an answerable question as long as we stick to certain assumptions up front:
- CAI guns did not receive restamped sequential serial numbers and will be determined via comparison to other known importers. For example, if I have a ratio of 3:1 CAI guns to CDI imported guns in the database, then it stands to reason that the number of CDI guns I calculate can help us estimate the number of CAI guns out there (in this example CAI guns would be 3X the number of CDI guns).
- The importers who restamped with a new serial number did so sequentially within a given import batch.
- Subsequent import batches started sequentially from the last number reached without a massive (say 10k digits) jump in numbering. This is a bit of a WAG because we don't have the full list of all S/Ns tied to each import batch, but if any jumps are there, they are small enough for me not to have noticed.
- When a new prefix was used on a new import batch, the sequential number restarted from zero.
- Batches of guns for which we don't have good serial number data (for example the Springfield Armory imports) are quite small in relation to the "big 4" (CAI, NHM, CDI, & KBI) and shouldn't skew the results all that much.
- Batches of Russian 'sneaks' from the Sino-Banian imports did not get new serial numbers and will also not be counted. Again, the total number of these imports is dwarfed by the '92 to '94 imports of the big 4.
I'll keep a running tab of the highest S/N of the various importers and different batches I find and at some point we should be able to tally them up and come to a reasonable total.
Please post any S/N you might come across that is higher than any of the ones listed in the next post in this thread. Lower numeral S/Ns, unfortunately, do us no good in this thought experiment except to perhaps identify that no jump has occured and the S/N record is continuous from 1 to X.
Thanks all! thumb1
Here's one of each I've found in my first 2 minutes of looking (these are obviously not the high values...though the CDI is quite high, I have some that I know are higher, but not into the 100k range so that one might max out at 97k or so...that will take quite a bit of time as I look through thousands of my archived photos)
KBI RH: 11,205
(https://i.ibb.co/gWB18fR/AB2000-import-stamp.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t2Wf6vJ)
KBI RL: 12,466
(https://i.ibb.co/FHjgsMH/CM4895-K-import-stamp.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
CDI: 90,798
(https://i.ibb.co/sCZDLfn/AB3475-import-stamp.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
NHM 99XXXX: 10,941
(https://i.ibb.co/bKkM10h/AK8475-import-stamp2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
NHM NXXXX: 1,547
(https://i.ibb.co/gP69Dnn/BC3062-import-stamp.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9VGgqMM)
It appears there are XX times CAI guns then there are XXX imports. (still working on this one...this one will probably take a while)
Needless to say, if anyone owns one of these and is horrified to see the full S/N posted for the world to see, please PM me and I'll take it down immediately. (it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there are XX thousand Russian SKS's her, the S/Ns are all sequential, and to make up a number however)
Also, if anyone has any ideas to help this process along or to help confirm that my assumptions are at least reasonable, I'm all ears. Indeed, if anyone has any ideas as to why this is a ridiculous wasted of time and the results will be skewed because of one or more of my assumptions being wrong, please post up and we can discuss like always!
Thanks again guys! thumb1
Great thread! thumb1
I've checked all of mine with importer serials except for one. The ones i've checked all fall below the ones you listed.
I have '54 Izhevsk in the safe. It's buried in the safe, but the safe is currently buried behind a bunch of other stored items.
My only Russian is the 49/50 mystery....and it's KBI RH 232282
(https://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1949%20Russian%20SKS/In%20The%20White/DSCN3153.jpg) (https://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1949%20Russian%20SKS/In%20The%20White/DSCN3153.jpg.html)
Unfortunately, it was lightly struck in the first place, likely over BBQ, which was then removed...then repainted, then restripped, then reblued. Here is a photo from when it was in the white....LMK if another higher one doesn't show up...and I will try photo it now, although it will be quite difficult to get to show up.
KBI RH 232282 -- this would suggest 45 imports well over 300k
With estimates of 2.7-3million SKS45's manufactured, nearly twenty percent of them could be in the USA.
??
FOIA request may help.
Bummer Justin,
I just went back and checked starting from the other end of the record (reverse alphabetical order so I'm not going through the same guns) and found this gem:
(https://i.ibb.co/3F9qQHL/E4593-import-stamp.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QH3RtG1)
There's no way KBI imported 600k SKS45s.
I think this invalidates assumption #2 and #3.
I'll have to pull each and every number into a database and see where the leaps & jumps lie. They incremented that first digit for some reason, I wonder why? dntknw1 think1
Quote from: running-man on February 20, 2019, 11:15:33 AM
I'll have to pull each and every number into a database and see where the leaps & jumps lie. They incremented that first digit for some reason, I wonder why? dntknw1 think1
I don't know..but will throw this out there.. In the import stamp section, you have 2 variations of KBI.. so I'm going to grasp some.......at 2 different, but related subjects... cause thats what I do, and there is reasoning behind both :)
One reads
QuoteNotes: Identical to KBI #1 save for the RL in the S/N. Far less of the RL's around than the RH's from what I've seen.
The other reads
QuoteNotes: Definitely one of the big boys in the Russian SKS-45 game, KBI imported a whole bunch of guns in the mid 90's between the fall of the Soviet Union to the signing of the VRA in April '96. The president of KBI was Michael Kassner, who is somewhat of a legend in the arms import business. From the Pennsylvania secretary of state website (search for KBI), it appears that KBI was founded in 1989. Looking at the corporations Kassnar was involved in, I see Kassnar Imports Inc. in '67 (possibly his dad's company), Firstshot Inc. in '91, KopyKats Inc. in '96, Kassnar & Associates in '97. Kassner's Linkedin profile can be found here. He is currently at IWI USA Inc.
As for the stamp itself, I honestly have no idea why there are RH prefixes and RL prefixes. Something caused the change, maybe it was as simple as a separate import batch. I'm calling this one #1 as the RH's are much more numerous than the RL's from what I've seen.
Ok, still with me.. what if they, the RL and RH......... are backwards. :o
The RL prefix was first used, in 1990/1991 while Russia was still the USSR/CCCP, just before it was dissolved.....this could be why there are low numbers, less years of imports, smaller lots of imports due to a mess over seas.
Then the RH came after the change to Russia, More years of importation, larger surplus lots due to cleaning house..
So to kind of sum my mess up... if KBI went into the business in '89, started imports, the RL prefix from the CCCP in 1990 into some point in 1991, they RL stamped them till they exhausted. Then new lots got imported from the new Russia, and the RH prefix popped up somewhere later in 1991 and ran till 1996 when the VRA came down. This method could effectively give one roughly 6 years and you could use 6 incremented first digits, every change in the first digit starts a new import/business year.
It could have even started in 1991 with a 1, are all RL, then later in '91 go to an RH and a 2, go 365 days switch to a 3, and so on, that kind of still even works out to 6 incremented first digits
Or......................... something like that wacko1 kind of almost reads like the Chinese dating system, only copied by a US importer.. rofl2
I'm probably not even close, I just woke up and now my head hurts........... senil1
Cant remember,. what year was the cutoff for Russian sks Importation?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 20, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Cant remember,. what year was the cutoff for Russian sks Importation?
Quoteand ran till 1996 when the VRA came down.
In April of 1996... the Voluntary Restraint Agreement
https://tcc.export.gov/Trade_Agreements/All_Trade_Agreements/exp_005371.asp
Notice on the list....of "permitted" weapons... no SKS or SVT is listed
QuoteFirearms Permitted to Be Imported into the United States from the Russian Federation
Pistols/Revolvers
1. German Model P08 Pistol
2. IZH 34M, .22 caliber Target Pistol
3. IZH 3 5M, .22 caliber Target Pistol
4. Mauser Model 1896 Pistol
5. MC-57-1 Pistol
6. MC-1-5 Pistol
7. Polish Vis Model 35 Pistol
8. Soviet Nagant Revolver
9. TOZ 35,.22 caliber Target Pistol
Rifles
1. BARS-4 Bolt Action Carbine
2. Biathlon Target Rifle, .22LR caliber
3. British Enfield Rifle
4. CM2,.22 caliber Target Rifle (also known as SM2,.22 caliber)
5. German Model 98K Rifle
6. German Model G41 Rifle
7. German Model G43 Rifle
8. IZH-94
9. LOS-7 Bolt Action Rifle
10. MC-7-07
11. MC-18-3
12. MC-19-07
13. MC-105-01
14. MC-112-02
15. MC-113-02
16. MC-115-1
17. MC-125/127
18. MC-126
19. MC-128
20. Saiga Rifle
21. Soviet Model 38 Carbine
22. Soviet Model 44 Carbine
23. Soviet Model 91/30 Rifle
24. TOZ 18,.22 caliber Bolt Action Rifle
25. TOZ 55
26. TOZ 78
27. Ural Target Rifle, .22LR caliber
28. VEPR Rifle
29. Winchester Model 1895, Russian Model Rifle
ANNEX B
Ammunition Prohibited from Being Imported
into the United States from the Russian Federation
1. 7.62X25mm caliber (also known as 7.63X25 mm caliber or.30 Mauser)
It could be GM. The only issue I have with your thought process is that zero guns were imported from the USSR before December 1991, this was because all the Iron Curtain countries were all once on the dreaded ITAR proscribed list - and the USSR was on it to the very end.
The smaller iron curtain countries in Europe that fell prior to the fall of the Soviet Union were removed from the ITAR proscribed list piecemeal as the need arose and tradeoffs evaluated. The government apparently wanted to help both a) weaken the ability of said country to mount an offensive should things still go south in Europe, and b) strengthen the local economies by trading that military hardware for an influx of $$'s and aid.
In addition to the opening up of economic relations, I know it is strongly implied that the US also had a strong rapport with certain states that were in possession of various Soviet era nuclear weapons with no way to get rid of them. We gladly helped certain former communist states decide what to do with them (many went right back to Russia) and taught them decommissioning methods to prevent these weapons from being sold on the black market as was wont to happen with everything else in that era.
There is a method to the madness... There has to be a pattern..
Ok do they all have the CCCP mark, any say Russia, USSR? Is the wording of the RL differant than the RH?
The prefix number has to be like a shipping lot number, 6 lots of imports.
I will check mine this weekend.
I found at least 18,750 of those Russian SKSs that were imported in one mass load... :) And almost a million Chinese weapons were imported in 2 years.. chuckles1
Newsweek article from 1/23/94 https://www.newsweek.com/comrades-do-booming-business-187374
QuoteIT ISN'T EVERY DAY THAT THE SOVIET military's biggest cargo jet, the AN-124, touches down in Columbus, Ohio. Last Dec. 23 was the first time in history, as a matter of fact. But what customs agents found in the hold was more astonishing still: 18,750 semiautomatic long guns, the 10-round SKS rifles that the Soviet military used to carry. The shipment was enough to arm an entire infantry division. It "scared the heck" out of airport officials, according to one freight handler. but the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms had to admit that all the import documents were in order. And thousands of customers around the country were waiting eagerly.
It's the gun industry's biggest boom these days: firearms from the ex-communist bloc and China, sold cheaply. Imports from Russia have just started to pick up in the last six months, but they're moving fast; Chinese firearms have already flooded the American market. In 1992 the United States imported 97,000 Chinese firearms (mostly copies of Soviet models); in 1993 it imported about 900,000, nearly a tenfold increase.
QuoteIn 1991 the United States imported 719,521 firearms; in 1993 it imported 3.2 million, a 345 percent increase.
China sold 97,000 firearms to the United States in 1992; in 1993 it sold 900,000, and 54 percent of all rifle imports were Chinese.
https://youtu.be/MZuL2b7tITU
Could the RH and RL be associated with keeping track of who/where that batch came from on the importers end?
Russia (insert city/arsenal/exporter).
Heck it could be to differentiate the Russians that Larry imported vs. the ones Harry imported. Or, maybe the ones Larry stamped vs the ones Harry stamped...and Harry is obviously a better employee? dance2
It's likely something that makes perfect sense...or absolutely none. Did this importer also bring in other weapons they restamped themselves that could lend insight into a pattern?
Want to get in on this but, after reading above posts, I'm kinda lost (no surprise) as to where we are on the "high number" 1,2,3 qualifiers to post iz. ???
Quote from: running-man on February 20, 2019, 11:15:33 AM
Bummer Justin,
I just went back and checked starting from the other end of the record (reverse alphabetical order so I'm not going through the same guns) and found this gem:
(https://i.ibb.co/3F9qQHL/E4593-import-stamp.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QH3RtG1)
There's no way KBI imported 600k SKS45s.
I think this invalidates assumption #2 and #3.
I'll have to pull each and every number into a database and see where the leaps & jumps lie. They incremented that first digit for some reason, I wonder why? dntknw1 think1
Your going to have to expand the subgroups to find the high # for each. RL1, RL2, RL3 etc. Since we don't know what the letters or first digit identifies other then its not part of the total.... just find the high numbers after for each.
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 21, 2019, 12:44:08 PM
Could the RH and RL be associated with keeping track of who/where that batch came from on the importers end?
2 things come to mind with the H and L.... both were communist nations that shed communism about a year before the big change in Russia in '91.. Hungary and Lithuania. Both nations were in possession of Warsaw pact weapons and Soviet troops were present.
But.. I don't know what, if anything came out of Lithuania, Hungary, I know we imported a bunch of surplus weapons from.
Quote from: Matchka on February 21, 2019, 12:55:20 PM
Want to get in on this but, after reading above posts, I'm kinda lost (no surprise) as to where we are on the "high number" 1,2,3 qualifiers to post iz. ???
Laugh man, I know the feeling!
I had wanted the data collection to be straightforward, collect high numbers and be done. Unfortunately, KBI jumped groups of numbers. It will take a bit more effort to verify block 1, block 2, block 3 etc. Not the end of the world, just not as easy as I'd hoped.
As of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
QuoteAs of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
Modify message
Weird!!!!!!!!!
I was recently told this by the Russian SKS God Of CGN.
QuoteAll the US researches were based on tiny base of SKSs available in USA. When huge amount of rifles came to Canada from Ukraine in unmolested (except mag pinning) condition, be it original refurb condition or factory original, collectors learnt many new things. Among them are the new empirical data about so called "letter series". Letter series were kind of extra production run, they originally had both laminate and hardwood stocks, and many of them had seen reuse of NOS parts from earlier periods, so it's normal there's no 100% likeness in them. Anyone claiming opposite is just choosing to be ignorant of tons of pictures of factory original rifles discussed here in Canada.
Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard
.
I know, I know..... but, I couldn't help myself!!!! rofl
QuoteAs of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
That is alot more than I expected... :o
Wait wait wait..... whoah whoah
Who's he callin "ladies"?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 21, 2019, 08:29:11 PM
QuoteAs of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
Modify message
Weird!!!!!!!!!
I was recently told this by the Russian SKS God Of CGN.
QuoteAll the US researches were based on tiny base of SKSs available in USA. When huge amount of rifles came to Canada from Ukraine in unmolested (except mag pinning) condition, be it original refurb condition or factory original, collectors learnt many new things. Among them are the new empirical data about so called "letter series". Letter series were kind of extra production run, they originally had both laminate and hardwood stocks, and many of them had seen reuse of NOS parts from earlier periods, so it's normal there's no 100% likeness in them. Anyone claiming opposite is just choosing to be ignorant of tons of pictures of factory original rifles discussed here in Canada.
Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard
.
I know, I know..... but, I couldn't help myself!!!! rofl
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 21, 2019, 08:29:11 PM
QuoteAs of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
Modify message
Weird!!!!!!!!!
I was recently told this by the Russian SKS God Of CGN.
Quote......
Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard
.
This is what Boris was asking about in another thread recently, I believe.
Whoops double posted trying to fix #24 sorry.
Here is the only one I have, however, I don't think you need it anymore due to the RH600000 that was posted. But just in case
KBI RH210184
(https://i.ibb.co/ZWwWNTk/IMG-6723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0hWhQJd)
Digging up an old thread because I believe I may have information I'm not seeing anywhere else.
If this has been pointed out forgive me, I failed to find it.
We keep discussing the RL and RH import stamp wondering what they mean, I was searching through GoneBroker when I found a guy selling the very first RH and RL rifle.
RH000001 and RL000001
He claims he got them directly from the importer who stated they stood for Russian Hardwood and Russian Laminate.
Although this isn't exactly groundbreaking, we could possibly infer some things, if these really are the true first ones there is something interesting on the RH vs the RL.
The RH has been double striked by the dot matrix, and the RL looks clean. perhaps this shows they got the RH's first and were still working out import stamp bugs on the early RH's but not the RL's due to them coming after? literally just riffing here, but perhaps an idea to revisit?
I'd also like to say, GM's idea on it being kind of like a chinese dating system for batch numbers makes the most sense to me.
If he is correct, moving forward we would have to try and identify highest number of the last 5 digits to attempt an estimation and number per batch.
Here is the link to the seller with both of the rifles mentioned above and his details on it.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876089638
Just my .01 (I'd give you .02, but ya know.... coin shortage :)) )
I am imagining a certain someone frantically scrutinizing the data....smacking oneself upon the noggin...and craving tomato juice.
rofl
That makes so much sense it really bugs me.
I am very glad my RH is actually in H...despite not being original. :)
That explains the difference in H and L tally's. thumb1
Quote from: Justin Hell on August 09, 2020, 11:04:06 PM
I am imagining a certain someone frantically scrutinizing the data....smacking oneself upon the noggin...and craving tomato juice.
rofl
That makes so much sense it really bugs me.
I am very glad my RH is actually in H...despite not being original. :)
That explains the difference in H and L tally's. thumb1
If confirmed this can also provide an easy way to tell what they came to the US in. thumb1
Quote from: Shoot The Refurbs on August 09, 2020, 08:33:16 PM
Digging up an old thread because I believe I may have information I'm not seeing anywhere else.
If this has been pointed out forgive me, I failed to find it.
We keep discussing the RL and RH import stamp wondering what they mean, I was searching through GoneBroker when I found a guy selling the very first RH and RL rifle.
RH000001 and RL000001
He claims he got them directly from the importer who stated they stood for Russian Hardwood and Russian Laminate.
Although this isn't exactly groundbreaking, we could possibly infer some things, if these really are the true first ones there is something interesting on the RH vs the RL.
The RH has been double striked by the dot matrix, and the RL looks clean. perhaps this shows they got the RH's first and were still working out import stamp bugs on the early RH's but not the RL's due to them coming after? literally just riffing here, but perhaps an idea to revisit?
I'd also like to say, GM's idea on it being kind of like a chinese dating system for batch numbers makes the most sense to me.
If he is correct, moving forward we would have to try and identify highest number of the last 5 digits to attempt an estimation and number per batch.
Here is the link to the seller with both of the rifles mentioned above and his details on it.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876089638
Just my .01 (I'd give you .02, but ya know.... coin shortage :)) )
Good observation STR, I've actually seen that auction before (price has come down on these considerably (I guess he finally wants to sell them), but never read that portion of it. Makes sense though. As JH says, slapping my head and saying I should have had a V8 on this one. The database mostly confirms this hypothesis. I found a very few odd men out, and when I looked at the photos a second time, realized I had misidentified the stock types on a handful of them. There are still a couple outliers, but they could have had stocks swapped after import or might have been misidentified as well. The vast majority of RL's are laminate, and for RH's they are hardwood. thumb1
As for GM's early/late batch theory on the RL/RH's; I think this is a hard strike against it. Laminates and Hardwoods were not separated at refurb as photos of crates of 'untouched' SKSs from Canada show both kinds present in the same crate. It was likely a KBI specific thing where they pulled a gun from the crate, graded it and determined the stock type, and then stamped and recorded it before packaging the gun + accessories/sling into the box for sale at retail.
The jumping digits from 200k to 600k in the individual RH series....that could easily be a different import batch and I lean towards that guess myself....
I agree that they likely were imported alongside each other, it just makes logistical sense.
but I do still think that the numbering could be batch numbers with the leading digit as an identifier of the batch itself but maybe not year specific like the chinese had done.
Is there something i'm (likely) missing that would disqualify this idea?
Also, a couple questions I'm now pondering....
Have we found any rifles within the other ranges, ie SN R(L/H)1xxxxx, 2xxxxx,3xxxxx, etc. to possibly confirm this or is there a clearly defined gap between the 2xx,xxx and the 6xx,xxx SN's?
Are there any leading digits that are present on RH's but not RL's or vice versa?
I'm excited to hear others thoughts on this.
-STR
I think we agree on the leading numeral jumps being consistent with different batch numbers. My understanding of what GM had proposed was that the RH vs RL were different batches, and I think that highly unlikely in lieu of the observation that RL = laminate and RH = hardwood.
I have not seen a large jump in the RL's like I have in the RH's, but then again, there are probably 6-7 RH's for every 1 RL I have catalogued in the database. After finding the 600k RH gun, I got so discouraged I haven't touched this topic since. chuckles1
No idea if there are 3xxxxx 4xxxxx 5xxxxx series out there. At some point I will go through my photos and find out (it has to be photos, I don't record the imported S/N anywhere in the database - I possibly should start going forward so I have a fully searchable field for when questions like this come up) dntknw1
Another possibility I just thought of is that the 6xxxxx series might indicate a new batch, but the code could be 1996 imported such that it signifies 199(6)xxxxx and does not necessarily mean 3xxxxx, 4xxxxx, & 5xxxxx if they didn't import any in 1993, 1994, & 1995. (Dec. 1992 through April 1996 was the only possible wholesale import window for these direct from areas of the former Soviet Union)
It's just a WAG, but it may be that we never find anything but the originals numbered from 000001 to whatever (I *think* those are sequential - in order - with no gaps, but would have to really refine the database to ensure this), and then the jump to 6xxxxx. dntknw1
Dang, fellas.
Sometimes you make my head spin the way you guys jump into this stuff.
I cane here because I like the SKS. I figure most of us did.
But, like the rest, I started learning a bit more about the history. Then a bit more. Then more......
Now, any time I see one, I look for certain things. I don't have to pick one up to know a good bit about it. Stock type, bayo type and color - and proper orientation-, gas block, paint or blue, barrel length, factory scope mount...... All from a distance tells me if I should get serious about it.
All of these things I learned without studying or internet searches. Just by hanging out here with some cool like minded folks
All of it right here.
No sh*t attitudes. No egos. No internet purse swinging. Just reading and soaking up the info.....by osmosis I guess.
Quote from: running-man on August 11, 2020, 09:22:18 AM
I think we agree on the leading numeral jumps being consistent with different batch numbers. My understanding of what GM had proposed was that the RH vs RL were different batches, and I think that highly unlikely in lieu of the observation that RL = laminate and RH = hardwood.
I have not seen a large jump in the RL's like I have in the RH's, but then again, there are probably 6-7 RH's for every 1 RL I have catalogued in the database. After finding the 600k RH gun, I got so discouraged I haven't touched this topic since. chuckles1
No idea if there are 3xxxxx 4xxxxx 5xxxxx series out there. At some point I will go through my photos and find out (it has to be photos, I don't record the imported S/N anywhere in the database - I possibly should start going forward so I have a fully searchable field for when questions like this come up) dntknw1
It's likely my misunderstanding of what he had been saying, but I believe we're thinking the same thing or close. Essentially, the leading digit is what is the identifier for batch number, with 0 being the first batch. The RL's and RH's would have their own number sequence independent from each other, only sharing an identifying digit (leading digit) link between them for batch number they came in. From the 2xx,xxx and 6xx,xxx pictures posted we can also see that the serial number sequence has reset, likely in between each batch but without more data unable to say for certain that it wasn't once they reached say, 50,000 in number that they reset it. The 3xx,xxx 4xx,xxx etc. potentially missing data points could really shine some light there on when the number sequence reset.
Quote from: running-man on August 11, 2020, 09:36:09 AM
Another possibility I just thought of is that the 6xxxxx series might indicate a new batch, but the code could be 1996 imported such that it signifies 199(6)xxxxx and does not necessarily mean 3xxxxx, 4xxxxx, & 5xxxxx if they didn't import any in 1993, 1994, & 1995. (Dec. 1992 through April 1996 was the only possible wholesale import window for these direct from areas of the former Soviet Union)
It's just a WAG, but it may be that we never find anything but the originals numbered from 000001 to whatever (I *think* those are sequential - in order - with no gaps, but would have to really refine the database to ensure this), and then the jump to 6xxxxx. dntknw1
This is fascinating, it seems KBI did use some common sense when labeling their serial numbers, perhaps the batch identifier number was as simple as the year and 0 being the initial test import? Just riffing on a lot of this here but this is certainly a pretty interesting roll I think we're on. dance2
And you're damn right larry, that's why I love this place. :)