Picked this up at a gun show over the weekend. Saw it last month and told myself if I saw it again i'd grab it. And well here it is.
What is it? Transitional? Letter gun with non original star and date on the cover? The stock looks like theres an old date of 1950 on it, but would they reuse a stock when originally creating in 55/56? The stock serial number font is the same as the rest of the serial numbers.
I notice in this forum transitional section, the serial numbers are all KP then numbers, and this rifle is HP then numbers.
1 - https://imgur.com/3KoP9zq (https://imgur.com/3KoP9zq)
2 - https://imgur.com/3Z9UgJM (https://imgur.com/3Z9UgJM)
3 - https://imgur.com/EwZ4vvI (https://imgur.com/EwZ4vvI)
4 - https://imgur.com/6h8E77s (https://imgur.com/6h8E77s)
5 - https://imgur.com/GLi7vRq (https://imgur.com/GLi7vRq)
6 - https://imgur.com/h2GHb1m (https://imgur.com/h2GHb1m)
7 - https://imgur.com/SWeRIwT (https://imgur.com/SWeRIwT)
8 - https://imgur.com/R5FN25H (https://imgur.com/R5FN25H)
9 - https://imgur.com/oGtdnOA (https://imgur.com/oGtdnOA)
10 - https://imgur.com/I6R7TzO (https://imgur.com/I6R7TzO)
11 - https://imgur.com/EXtykZq (https://imgur.com/EXtykZq)
12 - https://imgur.com/jFcJSDY (https://imgur.com/jFcJSDY)
13 - https://imgur.com/JrAQsNG (https://imgur.com/JrAQsNG)
14 - https://imgur.com/YJj8aAI (https://imgur.com/YJj8aAI)
15 - https://imgur.com/QHlAr71 (https://imgur.com/QHlAr71)
Nice gun!
I'll offer my $0.02, which with $3 will buy you a fancy coffee at Starbucks.
The gun is a 1956 letter Д gun based on the receiver markings and feature set. The '55 receiver cover is highly likely correct for this prefix series in the sub ~3500 serial range as the following as-issued gun also has it and many other light refurbs with this prefix have exclusively '55 covers. Not sure what the "C" on the receiver cover signifies, doesn't look like any refurb mark I've ever seen but that can't be discounted. Original stocks should have the "HP" prefix in the S/N, so the fact yours doesn't have this plus the fact that you can clearly see the remains of the Tula star cartouche and 195X date there indicate this is a replacement stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/CMLmDQ3/HP3382-stock.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/p298rwz/HP3382-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/t2Sj8MF/HP3382-receiver-cover.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/8cbDcg9/HP3382-receiver-cover2.jpg)
I have this HP4907 gun that has this receiver cover:
(https://i.ibb.co/JB3TDJt/HP4907-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/0Qk67ZB/HP4907-receiver-cover-top.jpg)
but it being a heavy refurb with a clear refurb stamp, who's to say that the cover isn't off a KP or other prefixed gun?
Bottom line is you have a nice '56 Russian SKS45. Not as-issued perhaps, but it's a fine specimen in pretty good shape. thumb1
RM-
What do you think of the Tula Arsenal and wonky 1955r stamps on the OP's receiver?
(https://i.ibb.co/54F9G1p/sks45-1955-B.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Is this a late transitional thing, or a post production hand etching?
Out of curiosity, with intent of probing, How many HP prefix with 3 numerical digits have been seen come up, as opposed to 4 numerical digits?
Hah! Hello again Boris!
On the stocks serial number, the 2 and the 3 are the same size, but the 5 is bigger. Is this the same vodka connoisseur serializing the stock as was suggested who etched the date and star on the receiver cover?
(https://i.ibb.co/DwpTcDM/20200224-191636.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MP6QwD1)
Quote from: Boris Badinov on February 25, 2020, 10:45:23 PM
RM-
What do you think of the Tula Arsenal and wonky 1955r stamps on the OP's receiver?
(https://i.ibb.co/54F9G1p/sks45-1955-B.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Is this a late transitional thing, or a post production hand etching?
I actually hadn't noticed it. The 1955 is quite deep, not an etching or hand electropencilled text for certain. Might be a pentagraph type machine engraving or maybe the roll stamp was badly worn and moved during the stamping process. dntknw1
Quote from: DrivinSidewayz on February 25, 2020, 11:12:44 PM
Out of curiosity, with intent of probing, How many HP prefix with 3 numerical digits have been seen come up, as opposed to 4 numerical digits?
Hah! Hello again Boris!
Not very many, I’d have to look at the database to give you exact numbers but i think one or two besides yours. All things being equal, there are 899 possible three digit S/Ns (100 to 999) compared to 8999 possible four digit S/Ns (1000 to 9999) so you’d expect a 10:1 ratio if they made all 9999 possible guns of a particular prefix...
Numbers are always cool. I suppose I was aiming for any trends to go off of low S/N's.
BTW, the "C" , Tula star/arrow and date on the receiver cover are not printed perfectly center a long the 12 o clock line of the curve of the receiver, if that makes sense. The whole stamping or whatever is darn near 1 o clock off to the right. Is this seen on other rifles?
I'd have concerns about that dust cover if it was mine. Definitely looks like someone tried to freehand the markings. In some pictures with the 1-9-5-5 you can see how the metal in the grooves is not uniform in depth. It looks like someone tried to engrave it. Just my opinion.
Quote from: running-man on February 25, 2020, 11:48:21 PM
Quote from: Boris Badinov on February 25, 2020, 10:45:23 PM
RM-
What do you think of the Tula Arsenal and wonky 1955r stamps on the OP's receiver?
(https://i.ibb.co/54F9G1p/sks45-1955-B.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Is this a late transitional thing, or a post production hand etching?
I actually hadn't noticed it. The 1955 is quite deep, not an etching or hand electropencilled text for certain. Might be a pentagraph type machine engraving or maybe the roll stamp was badly worn and moved during the stamping process. dntknw1
The etching looks like good old fashioned hand engraving to me, though my father did far better work, being an engraver for nearly 40 years.
Quote from: Bacarnal on February 26, 2020, 08:33:42 AM
The etching looks like good old fashioned hand engraving to me, though my father did far better work, being an engraver for nearly 40 years.
You think? That's a ridiculously steady hand considering how deep it is and it's on a curved surface. I wonder why they didn't make it the correct year of '56 or for that matter continue into '57 and '58? Maybe I'll have to revisit my hypothesis on this one... think1
Always more to learn out there...always. thumb1
My Father was, in my opinion, an artist. He worked for a printing company that dealt with embossed corporate letterheads and school related items for Jostens. If you went to school before the mid '80's and got your graduation announcements and diplomas with the raised letters from Jostens, my Dad probably had a hand in making the dies, and that was all hand done back then.
You can see the stops and starts on the "5"s and especially with the loop joining the leg on the "9". Also, looking at the Tula star, it's almost like that's engraved also, looking at the left hand ray cut into the body and the entire arrow. A pantograph would have followed a set design. All of that looks free hand to my eye. I may be wrong, but that's how it looks to me. As to why they did it, y'all have a better grasp of that than I. Cheers, Bruce.
Mysterious feel to this gun. Maybe the weaponsmiths got involved in a friendly bet about being able to freehand. Or their stamping machine was broken for the shift.
Is it possible that they were trying to decide at that early serial number point as to whether mark them '55 or '56, left them blank until the main office bureaucracy pulled their "collective" wink1 heads out, and then marked them?
DS, looks to me you've got a mystery rifle, and a nice one to boot. Cool find!!!
Quote from: Bacarnal on February 27, 2020, 09:49:27 AM
Is it possible that they were trying to decide at that early serial number point as to whether mark them '55 or '56, left them blank until the main office bureaucracy pulled their "collective" wink1 heads out, and then marked them?
DS, looks to me you've got a mystery rifle, and a nice one to boot. Cool find!!!
I see what you did there...... clap1
The alignment is so bad, I couldn't imagine someone with capability to stamp or engrave like this making such a mistake. Seems intentional or as was suggested in another group, Vodka infused engraving.
There's a good chance there's info on this serial prefix in rm's serial number archives
Quote from: Boris Badinov on February 27, 2020, 01:45:50 PM
There's a good chance there's info on this serial prefix in rm's serial number archives
I'm not sure where to access the archive.
Russian serial data board in the Russian sub forum?
You may need a few more posts under your belt before you can access the serial number info
Quote from: Boris Badinov on February 27, 2020, 02:49:56 PM
You may need a few more posts under your belt before you can access the serial number info
Is this where I would see it?
(https://i.ibb.co/qsn20PW/Screen-Shot-2020-02-27-at-2-20-23-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/pzPkW9R)
Yeah.
I think you need to get to 100 posts to see the serial number information.
I checked. And there was only one "Д" letter rifle with an ИP prefix .
If I'm reading the spread sheet correctly, it has s 1955 cover with Tula Arsenal star stamp . Serial number
ИP 57## Д . I can't tell if it has the ☆ on the receiver or not.
Quote from: Boris Badinov on February 27, 2020, 04:31:01 PM
Yeah.
I think you need to get to 100 posts to see the serial number information.
I checked. And there was only one "Д" letter rifle with an ИP prefix .
If I'm reading the spread sheet correctly, it has s 1955 cover with Tula Arsenal star stamp . Serial number
ИP 57## Д . I can't tell if it has the ☆ on the receiver or not.
How do I type the backwards N? and by NP (with backwards N), do you mean what's seen on the rifle I have, HP?