So on this "other" forum, someone posted about their recent PSA SKS and it's gas tube that has a hole in it possibly from corrosive ammo and not being cleaned, etc....well someone posted a reply that kind of got to me as a major red flag: he said the SKS can be fired without it's gas tube, like a bolt action rifle.
Now my military side said, hell no, that is unsafe, but apparently it is okay with some of the others on that forum, so I ask all of you, what do you think? This is a Chinese SKS from Palmetto State Armory AND not a Yugoslavian M59/66!!!!
Me..I find it unsafe....
no idea, good question. would never have thought of firing one in that kind of shape. not safe enough for this oldfart.
Myself, I would not fire ANY weapon that was not fully assembled or missing parts.....
I'm with you owenj492.
If you fire a Type 56 without a gas tube, gases will still come out through the gas port and into the gas block which is designed to direct that gas jet, roughly back toward the shooter (normally to push the gas piston and op rod backwards). That seems like an "ungood" situation, even with goggles or a face shield, but to each their own rofl thumb1 I mean, yeah, it'll function like a bolt action but the gasses in the face part doesn't appeal to me.
I've heard of some rumors of things being done with coins and regulators/gas tubes in the past but have never experimented much myself. The most adjusting I ever did to a gas regulator was to change the fire rate in a M240B which isn't exactly rocket science :)
Who knows, maybe RM or someone comes along and explains how the gas tube was specifically designed to fit a 50 kopeyki piece rofl
Only SKS type rifle that can be fired safely without the gas tube is the M59/66 and that is only if you close and lock the gas valve into grenade mode which shuts of the gas from the piston/tube. In effect it turns it into a bolt action rifle. Any other SKS you would have to plug the gas port otherwise you'd get gas blast straight back into your face. NOT a good idea.
Funny thing is I reported the comment to a administrator, and I was contacted as to why I reported it AND was told that you can do that (firing without gas tube) anyway!
HINT: the other forum that was down for a few....
Like I said, UNSAFE & DANGEROUS IF YOU ASK ME!
Is it safe... Nope, but it will fire and not cycle, it would in my book be no safer than a revolver cylinder gap. I would NOT dare put my hand near the gap or that gas block and wear face and ear protection. Given the SKS block is pretty far away, so some blast may dissipate in open air.
HUGE DISCLAIMER....Do I condone those acts nope. nea1
Same reason I wear eye and ear protection, especially with a Hakim and it's direct impingment gas system, straight hot stinking gas through the gas tube to your facial area... fart1
Boil it down and it's right down there in the, "Hey y'all, watch this", category but not quite in the Darwin awards area. As GM alluded, fart1.
Quote from: Bacarnal on August 25, 2020, 09:54:37 PM
Boil it down and it's right down there in the, "Hey y'all, watch this", category but not quite in the Darwin awards area. As GM alluded, fart1.
Kind of like the dumb kid who shot himself in the arm with a glock "just cause"
It's all fun and games til somebody gets their eye put out.
What I'd do is fix my rifle then fire it.
The person asking this must have only one gun and a pressing need to go shooting.
Or just a goofball planning a YT video.
Well, a gun is safe until it isn't. It's not like you have much time to contemplate things between the time you pull the trigger and when something bad happens.
I would be most worried about some small piece of FOD getting blown into your face at several hundred feet per second. I'm with you Owen, definitely unsafe and asking for something bad to happen. In my mind it's the same as knowingly firing a gun with bad headspace or firing really hot handloads that you *know* bulge cases & balloon out primers. 99 times out of 100 you're ok, but it's that one time you're not that's the real kicker:
(https://i.ibb.co/n1h0fL9/ouch.gif)
Ninny advice from a bunch of ninnies at a ninny board.
Unless the poster states HOW to make that safe it isn't...essentially you would have to plug the gas block orifice and/or the mouth that feeds the gas tube....it's not a simple task, unless you know a plumber with an awesome set of tools......he can fix it. chuckles1
Unfortunately speaking of how it could be done would lead to democrats causing another conundrum to the gun community using words they don't know, that they will the redefine legally so they 'can' talk about it,,,and we as a community will have to discern whether a gas block is an assault feature.
Barrel shroud wingnut ninnies I say!
Both in government, and at that board.
Going there for advice would be akin to asking a great grandparent about how to deal with marital issues....you can't just smack it in the ass and demand a sandwich and hope for the best. In this case, you would smack it in the ass and get a face full of what you deserved. Although, once you wake up, they do have sammiches at the hospital.
I want to use my VPN to create a good guy character there...but good advice will get you banned....regardless.
Quote from: Justin Hell on August 27, 2020, 08:04:53 PM
Ninny advice from a bunch of ninnies at a ninny board.
Unless the poster states HOW to make that safe it isn't...essentially you would have to plug the gas block orifice and/or the mouth that feeds the gas tube....it's not a simple task, unless you know a plumber with an awesome set of tools......he can fix it. chuckles1
Unfortunately speaking of how it could be done would lead to democrats causing another conundrum to the gun community using words they don't know, that they will the redefine legally so they 'can' talk about it,,,and we as a community will have to discern whether a gas block is an assault feature.
Barrel shroud wingnut ninnies I say!
Both in government, and at that board.
Going there for advice would be akin to asking a great grandparent about how to deal with marital issues....you can't just smack it in the ass and demand a sandwich and hope for the best. In this case, you would smack it in the ass and get a face full of what you deserved. Although, once you wake up, they do have sammiches at the hospital.
I want to use my VPN to create a good guy character there...but good advice will get you banned....regardless.
I have not visited that site since posting this topic, just don't feel comfortable after that.
i would only do it if you could cap off the gas exhaust. I wouldnt compare it to a plugged barrel or improperly headspaced rifle.
if i was shooting for best group i would be temped to try it.
Quote from: running-man on August 26, 2020, 10:33:16 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/n1h0fL9/ouch.gif)
whats the story behind this? that looks like a christian arms rifle. 1k+ (not after that shot)
Quote from: auskip07 on August 30, 2020, 08:54:43 PM
Quote from: running-man on August 26, 2020, 10:33:16 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/n1h0fL9/ouch.gif)
whats the story behind this? that looks like a christian arms rifle. 1k+ (not after that shot)
Talk about "catastrophic failure"! Hoo-weee dang! I would like to know the actual cause of the failure, though. I couldn't figure out what all that debris was at first. It had split the front rest on his Lead Sled, or whatever make it is. Wasn't much it didn't split. Probably all the way to the seat of his pants. At least he's got an interesting wall-hanger now. fart1 whew1
firstchoice
Looking at the muzzle.
What's that on the end?
Quote from: Larry D. on August 31, 2020, 01:56:59 PM
Looking at the muzzle.
What's that on the end?
It's just a muzzle brake
Yikes! You can see the cloud of sawdust from the shrapnel blown down into the shooting bench at the moment of discharge.Hard to imagine anyone not getting at least seriously injured after an incident like that.
I would think it blew up (most probably) due to a bullet stuck in the bore. The shooter might have ignored a dud and didn't check it.
Hard to say, likely a double load in the muzzleloader:
https://content.uplynk.com/ac75ce92bcf84973a3ffe16cd45af0d8.m3u8
https://www.fox13now.com/2017/09/19/sanpete-county-man-injured-when-rifle-barrel-explodes-during-target-practice/
As far as an unplugged gas port equaling improper headspace or plugged barrel, no that's not what I was insinuating at all. I was just making the correlation that something is safe up until the point that it isn't. It's not like you have much time between the moment you pull the trigger and the "oh sh*t" moment that could come next (like is seen in the little animated gif I attached).
Plugging the gas port is something that has been done quite successfully in the past. The original port can be drilled out oversized and then tapped with a 1/16-27 NPT tap and plugged with a steel pipe plug. The gas tube can even be reinstalled and nobody knows the wiser from the outside. My understanding is that cycling the bolt is a bit of a PITA with lacquer cased rounds though I have no experience with this at all. My Yugo in single shot mode with the gas system turned off is not fun to cycle, but doesn't require my small mallet (just in case I ever bought a Mosin!) to tap it open either.
RM, why do you think there was a Hammer with the Sickle in the symbol of the USSR? Maybe they had Mosin's in mind whistle12.
Plugged barrel is my guess.
He admits that he had it "cleaned by a gunsmith" yet didn't bother to check the rifle when he got it back.
For all he knows, there was a cleaning rod in there.
GM sent me some screengrabs from the video I posted & we were talking about it. It's interesting, the destroyed gun is clearly marked Remington 700 in one of his screengrabs. News reporter says "Jerrod says his gun is a muzzle loader and he has to manually load the powder.". At the 1:46 mark, it clearly shows a photo of a box half filled with brass, but they are stubby (look like pistol rounds actually) and the empty fired brass that is right side up is the same height as the inverted unfired ones (i.e no bullet in front), so the muzzle loader description may be accurate. Is it a converted Rem 700?
Edit: It appears Remington actually sells a model 700 muzzle loader in .50 cal. that uses pre-primed cases. That's the one, so there you go....
https://www.remington.com/rifles/muzzleloading/model-700-ultimate/model-700-ultimate-muzzleloader
If that as a front stuffer, that's the least amount of smoke I've EVER seen one produce.
Why??? Lazy man black powder gun. So basically a centerfire black powder rifle.. reinvent the wheel Remington.. guess that's why your going belly up and bankrupt. Geeze, I've done black powder with a 45-70 Govt. and get more than a paltry 300yd.
And who puts a muzzle brake on a black powder gun.. :-\
Quote from: Greasemonkey on September 01, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
Why??? Lazy man black powder gun. So basically a centerfire black powder rifle.. reinvent the wheel Remington.. guess that's why your going belly up and bankrupt. Geeze, I've done black powder with a 45-70 Govt. and get more than a paltry 300yd.
And who puts a muzzle brake on a black powder gun.. :-\
I never considered it might be black powder with that muzzle brake. I also saw very little smoke. The guy probably loaded it with smokeless in addition to all his other shenanigans.
Dangerous fellow.
Near as I found the rifle can handle 200gr black powder...
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/remington-ultimate-muzzleloader-brass-casings.html
Ok, that's fine, I've run 50gr black powder, that's max, once or twice in my Colt Dragoon, she's pretty stout at that load..
But, throw Triple 7 or Pyrodex in, that's a game changer... I wouldn't push that much in it, I run low 30ish gr or so with the smokeless, I was told to drop 20% with those powders. I mean, I ain't dying to shoot.... And if using preformed smokeless pellets.. Hodgdon does not condone the use of more than 100 grains of their Pyrodex or Triple Seven pellets in a .45 or .50 caliber muzzleloaders. Now that is a 50 Cal muzzleloader... And I sure hope that wasn't modern smokeless powder.
A 1/2 " wood dowel will work for about 20 rounds. If you want a reusable one use a 1/2 " steel rod. Tap it out with the piston rod to convert back to automatic.
(https://i.imgur.com/Zb4jRPf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/knkfaLm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/O9dU44M.jpg)
Cupid - Have you actually done this?
And here we go, the stupidity from the other forum has come here......
I don't see an issue with firing with a plug in the gas tube. It just keeps the gases from being expelled in any significant way through the gas port of the barrel while simultaneously blocking the path of the gasses back towards the shooter that would have resulted from firing with the handguard/gastube and piston simply removed.
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on September 14, 2020, 02:54:06 PM
I don't see an issue with firing with a plug in the gas tube. It just keeps the gases from being expelled in any significant way through the gas port of the barrel while simultaneously blocking the path of the gasses back towards the shooter that would have resulted from firing with the handguard/gastube and piston simply removed.
I agree, but I think I would prefer the metal rod over a piece of wood. Although, if it were a piece of hardwood as opposed to pine I would feel comfortable with it. And I would want a snug fit length-wise so I don't have to worry about damaging the back of the tube cavity where the piston goes. Just my opinion in being cautious.
Quote from: Greatguns on September 14, 2020, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on September 14, 2020, 02:54:06 PM
I don't see an issue with firing with a plug in the gas tube. It just keeps the gases from being expelled in any significant way through the gas port of the barrel while simultaneously blocking the path of the gasses back towards the shooter that would have resulted from firing with the handguard/gastube and piston simply removed.
I agree, but I think I would prefer the metal rod over a piece of wood. Although, if it were a piece of hardwood as opposed to pine I would feel comfortable with it. And I would want a snug fit length-wise so I don't have to worry about damaging the back of the tube cavity where the piston goes. Just my opinion in being cautious.
Yup, good points.
Quote from: Greatguns on September 14, 2020, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on September 14, 2020, 02:54:06 PM
I don't see an issue with firing with a plug in the gas tube. It just keeps the gases from being expelled in any significant way through the gas port of the barrel while simultaneously blocking the path of the gasses back towards the shooter that would have resulted from firing with the handguard/gastube and piston simply removed.
I agree, but I think I would prefer the metal rod over a piece of wood. Although, if it were a piece of hardwood as opposed to pine I would feel comfortable with it. And I would want a snug fit length-wise so I don't have to worry about damaging the back of the tube cavity where the piston goes. Just my opinion in being cautious.
That's why I recommended a 1/2 " piece of steel rod for a reusable one.
I thought the entire point of the original conversation was the ability/safety to fire WITHOUT the gas tube in place. Plugging the gas tube just makes the rifle a modern Ross. Or Mannlicher. Or Lee. Or Swiss K.... :))