Local debate. ::) Ze questions:
Is there a specific year (and factory) that the rivet first appeared?
Was the change universal, or until a factory ran out of parts?
Would all Type 56's, with the rivet, be classified as 'commercial', for export?
TIA thankyou1
I have two pinned barrels SKS with that rivet holding the bayonet in, they have the serial sequence I assume that is like the SKS-M, NR, Sporter, etc. One is C13 91 27938, other is C9 91 30029, both MADE IN CHINA BY CGA, IMPORTED BY GLNIC LA.CA. With that "91" I assume they were sold in 1991. The bayonet rivet is not flared so I can back out the rivet and remove the bayonets (on both rifles) The 9127938 was missing stock, magazine, the 9130029 was in the black monte carlo stock, replaced that with a wood stock and handguard (non-serialized) I forgot: only serial numbers stamped are on left side of receiver, bolt carrier and bolt, the trigger, receiver cover and magazine (stocks also) are not stamped with any serial numbers.
(https://i.ibb.co/LJZg29s/DSC00308.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hZmdt2T)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zd0ZMLX/DSC00309.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jhSpr6f)
(https://i.ibb.co/Z1vNSr4/DSC00310.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBKVpCv)
(https://i.ibb.co/XYf5Lmc/DSC00311.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xFKgLVx)
(https://i.ibb.co/njYr8J1/DSC00312.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3cj1YZF)
Before photos:
(https://i.ibb.co/LrNxctL/383-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FXH5ywS)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kyqhc2z/383-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZT8XRB1)
(https://i.ibb.co/NrWhP7g/pix484651068.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qCmGfxL)
IIRC, the riveted bayonet idea came around the time that China decided to try a removable bayonet, which had a totally different bayonet handle, and a hook at the normal bayonet screw hole on the bayonet itself, allowing for it to be tipped out of the rivet permanence.
Using some of the parts involved were when I think when the confusion over what to do to keep the Clinton clan happy before the ban may have lent to some of the later imports sporting the permanently fixed bayonet. It was a confusing time when we were expected to believe bayonets made drive by shootings more menacing....despite any statistics to show bayonetting being a thing in thug culture.
Experts might chime in to correct me, but I just came back from a mini vacation...and I missed this stuff. :)
My SKS-S has the riveted bayo attachment. It was imported in '92, not sure of DOM. All late model features.
As with owenj492's examples, the rivet was never flared. Maybe it was a "quick-detach" idea for the ban era? chuckles1 I probably shouldn't say that. That's how the internet lore gets started. :)) :-X
Not much help for ya, Matchka. But it's the only info I can offer. thumb1
firstchoice
Thanks for the inputs. I've searched other forums, the interweb in general and Yooper - no joy wrt specifics on this subject.
Found another pinned barrel SKS made in China by CGA with serial C5 9101857 and the bayonet rivet looks to be "flared" see pictures below (found on proxibid.com):
(https://i.ibb.co/nk4WzD3/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dKXhGQb)
(https://i.ibb.co/r2VGtf6/002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jkSv5ZM)
(https://i.ibb.co/HBqmR8Q/003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/djDnXYy)
Interesting topic.
I'd always assumed the riveted bayonet was a commercial modification.
Not sure if RunningMan could cull out the riveted bayonet entries on the SKS Survey to help on this query, or not? That would probably be the best way to get a perspective on the timeline of the riveted types. IF it's possible for him to do that. Ahh, RM can do anything! Right RM? :)
firstchoice
There are surprisingly few riveted bayos in the survey:
250000xx Triangle 326
86753xx Triangle 366
3915xx Triangle 0130a
15042xx Triangle 306
91278xx Text Only / No Stamp
I don't believe the /130a\ entry, the photo shows it didn't have a bayo attached. Also the /366\ entry has bizarro S/N, likely a gun built out of parts...
Quote from: running-man on September 08, 2020, 10:12:25 AM
There are surprisingly few riveted bayos in the survey:
250000xx Triangle 326
86753xx Triangle 366
3915xx Triangle 0130a
15042xx Triangle 306
91278xx Text Only / No Stamp
I don't believe the /130a\ entry, the photo shows it didn't have a bayo attached. Also the /366\ entry has bizarro S/N, likely a gun built out of parts...
Not that many reported riveted bayo guns. And they were all non-/26\ guns.
I looked through some of my past-owned SKS' and found an oval (
926) arsenal with the rivet (25mil SN, pinned barrel), a
DIG-import (pinned barrel) that was imported in '91 that has the rivet, and my previously mentioned
SKS-S, '92 import (pinned barrel).
Both of my
BETA ARMS-imported
SKS-30's that were imported in 1988 have the rivets, of course. They were the first to use the rivets for the quick-release bayonets.
So the rivets date back to at least 1988 but were only non-/26\ arsenals, that we know of, to date.
firstchoice
Thanks to "firstchoice" for seeing that I had the rivets inserted on the wrong side and they have been corrected!
Wrong way:
(https://i.ibb.co/ch3znkb/DSC00310.jpg) (https://ibb.co/60w6Crv)
They are supposed to be inserted on the right side, above picture they are inserted on the left side, the correct right side is flush with the head of the rivet, left side is not flush.
Correct way:
(https://i.ibb.co/N296chk/20200911-164030.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xq1Sxvc)
Looks good, owenj492! Glad I could help. The recessed rivet head definitely looks better when seated properly.
Your two GLNIC-imported Type 56's are really nice examples!
firstchoice
Quote from: firstchoice on September 12, 2020, 06:25:23 AM
Looks good, owenj492! Glad I could help. The recessed rivet head definitely looks better when seated properly.
Your two GLNIC-imported Type 56's are really nice examples!
firstchoice
Thanks!!!!! thumb1
Excellent study/analysis so far. I've never seen a /26\ with a rivet. If '88 is the earliest date, at least that we know of; would it be safe to assume that all rivet SKSs are commercial?
Everything that I have seen so far indicates they were used only on commercial SKS'. Although, as with all things SKS, I wouldn't be surprised for an as-issued Type 56 w/riveted bayo to show up and bite us. chuckles1
At this point I think it's a pretty good assumption even with the limited data we're using. But assumption is the key word. thumb1
firstchoice
I forgot about my K Sports "DP" serial number 2300368P that is pinned barrel but has screw instead of a rivet:
(https://i.ibb.co/cY2Htcz/04.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xFz0GSV)
(https://i.ibb.co/nB4D2jw/05.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C64ndQw)
(https://i.ibb.co/9sz1F0S/06.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RzZsxKd)
(https://i.ibb.co/cwGCdfx/14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Nr8mzD7)
(https://i.ibb.co/XzGn0M0/16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D7jBcTc)
(https://i.ibb.co/jvNpwTw/02.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1fgSXLX)
Quote from: Justin Hell on August 27, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
IIRC, the riveted bayonet idea came around the time that China decided to try a removable bayonet, which had a totally different bayonet handle, and a hook at the normal bayonet screw hole on the bayonet itself, allowing for it to be tipped out of the rivet permanence.
Using some of the parts involved were when I think when the confusion over what to do to keep the Clinton clan happy before the ban may have lent to some of the later imports sporting the permanently fixed bayonet. It was a confusing time when we were expected to believe bayonets made drive by shootings more menacing....despite any statistics to show bayonetting being a thing in thug culture.
Experts might chime in to correct me, but I just came back from a mini vacation...and I missed this stuff. :)
Looking at owenj's DP... screwed v pinned barrel - didn't consider that.
Hey Owen, could you possibly post a pic of the other side of the rivet? How did you anchor the other side?I'm assuming it gets peened somehow) I've got one to do but I've never actually had an SKS with a riveted bayonet before.
Anyone got a good picture of the rivet by itself?
I got this off of GB, but it only shows the side. Isn't the end hollow for peening it like a standard rivet???
(https://store-49nwyat.mybigcommerce.com/product_images/q/330/60-00-8A__37714.jpg)
That shows what I was looking for.
The ring below the head is what keeps it from coming out accidentally, I assume.
Quote from: Larry D. on November 02, 2020, 11:42:30 AM
That shows what I was looking for.
The ring below the head is what keeps it from coming out accidentally, I assume.
Are you saying the rivet gets compressed and the ring gets pushed out to lock the rivet in place? I think I need to look closer at my bayonet lug
Quote from: Greatguns on November 02, 2020, 12:31:27 PM
Quote from: Larry D. on November 02, 2020, 11:42:30 AM
That shows what I was looking for.
The ring below the head is what keeps it from coming out accidentally, I assume.
Are you saying the rivet gets compressed and the ring gets pushed out to lock the rivet in place? I think I need to look closer at my bayonet lug
That's my line of thought. Not compressed like a traditional rivet, but side loaded by the spring in the (handle part?) of the bayo.
If it was just a smooth surface, I'm thinking it could vibrate or shake loose when firing.
Pretty sure it needs something beyond simple friction to keep it in place, but I don't have one to check my theory.
I've seen rivets with flaring on the 'go in' (right side of Gg's pic).
I picked this up last week and just realized it had the rivet still in it. I hadn't looked at it that hard because the beautiful stock had my eye. So I took a few photos that hopefully answer your questions.
(https://i.ibb.co/f26h2HB/IMG-9695.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R9rx9cZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/J3Hswkw/IMG-9696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/phdLBXB)
(https://i.ibb.co/Fw3gVKV/IMG-9698.jpg) (https://ibb.co/swRyH2H)
(https://i.ibb.co/Tc3bcKj/IMG-9699.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0qbFqB4)
(https://i.ibb.co/F7B1L3p/IMG-9700.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PC5yvjk)
Wow.
Some pretty clear tool marks on the hollow end.
Do the rest of you with rivets have that as well?
As an observation, that rivet sure looks to me like it is meant to be rolled/peened for permanent attachment.
Quote from: Larry D. on November 11, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
Wow.
Some pretty clear tool marks on the hollow end.
Do the rest of you with rivets have that as well?
As an observation, that rivet sure looks to me like it is meant to be rolled/peened for permanent attachment.
Was looking at mine yesterday after getting my rivet from Polytech and have determined the same thing Larry. I have a small ball-peen hammer I believe, when I get my bayonet, will work to get the rivet seated in place. I can support the head side of the rivet then place the ball of my hammer into the open side of the rivet and one or two smacks down onto the ball-peen hammer with a heavier one should get it where it needs to be.
Yessir. A little oil might help that process.
And a third hand.....
Quote from: Larry D. on November 11, 2020, 02:20:09 PM
Yessir. A little oil might help that process.
And a third hand.....
Nah, I have a bunch of Fiber reinforced Nylon blocks for support. But if that don't work I'll get my wife to hold it steady.
you could also attempt for less potential misstrike damage by putting a ball bearing in the hollow end, and vising into place, which should end up with a nice even purty peen....
Quote from: Justin Hell on November 11, 2020, 04:36:55 PM
you could also attempt for less potential misstrike damage by putting a ball bearing in the hollow end, and vising into place, which should end up with a nice even purty peen....
Only balls I have aren't quite up to that task. rofl rofl rofl