can someone have an idea on this,,no one anywhere in person does https://ibb.co/wJtbYqL
That is an oddball. The arsenal is fairly unusual, it's listed as ?5 in the "Arsenal Stamps" sticky, since we don't know the order of the numbers. There is another serial number in the data for this arsenal that has a letter followed by numbers (5 digits). Most likely scrubbed and restamped for reasons unknown.
https://clone.sks-files.com/index.php?topic=43.0
(https://i.ibb.co/WDCdsX3/20210127-165930.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wJtbYqL)
what does scrub mean ,,because this number is on the bolt carrier ,dust cover and the s/n on the trigger is K0099 and is spot welded
I,see many rifles on video being takin out of large crates in their original condition so wonder why scrubbing would be done seems costly
Does this rifle have an import stamp. If so, what does it say?
"Scrubbed" means that the original serials were removed (possibly via filet weld) then re-stamped.
Can you post more photos?
Quote from: sksarego on February 08, 2021, 09:42:00 PM
what does scrub mean ,,because this number is on the bolt carrier ,dust cover and the s/n on the trigger is K0099 and is spot welded
Scrubbing original serial numbers and re-stamping the unusual serial number would have been done by the Chinese, not the US importer, so it's not cost prohibitive, just a part of refurbishment, assembly from parts, or whatever they did.
The standard serial number format for this arsenal is:
6-15xxxxx where the first number is the month (
June in this example) and the two digits after the hyphen are the year of production of the Type 56 (i.e., 1956 = 1st year of production), so
1970 in this example
A stamped ("spot welded") trigger group is normal on these.
I agree with BB that pictures would be helpful.
chinese or any other still makes no sense to me as to why its done ,to spend all that time sanding of a s/n on a dust cover so perfectly or what about the bolt carrier ??..and the trigger guard s/n is different,,it doesnt make sense to see so many rifles with mixed up s/n to suddenly scrub some for no known reason.. this rifle has a short lug barrel ,screwed in spike bayonet, cleaning kit storage and the barrel has ridges as sloppy lathe work or hurried and you can use zipper clips,,letter Don site ladder and was bought in a pawn pre 1995 as the pawn shop was no longer is business after that.CAI ST ALBNY
Scrubbing may not make sense to you, but it was most certainly done and done rather often. Many nations appear to have done this as part of refurbishment. It's readily apparent when the carbine in question is very 'different' from the norm and the differences noted. As P32 says, the norm for /?5\ would be the #-##XXXXX S/N format. The format on your carbine is quite different. It may be the original number and not scrubbed, but I wouldn't even be able to begin to tell you how or why it came about as it is truly unique...
As mentioned above, photos of the other components would be helpful to see what state of refurb the gun is in.
Examples of scrubbed parts and SKS carbines on Russian and Chinese SKS:
(https://i.ibb.co/c1FrpwX/BO5220-receiver-double-stamp.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/ScSj1cR/7558-K-receiver-cover-top-scrubbed.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/M2mKF62/E4361-magazine-scrubbed.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/LSDJ92H/scrubbed-bolt-carrier.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Fsxy1ML/scrubbed-mag.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/gSMVrRK/scrubbed-trigger-group.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/PcWctGD/scrubbed-trigger-group2.jpg)
i see ,,i have read where to make them look new again which i could maybe understand although people crave the battle worn look as well in america..and why leave arsenal stamp or re stamp it in this case?? i have another with three million s/n left of 26 a russian with all kinds of letters marks and numbers and others so why just some "scrubbed"..i am going to consult some machinists i know with rifle and get their opinion..i have seen pics of where these rifles were made it seems like very antiquated works to be so good at grinding sanding and bluing for a hundred and fifty dollar rifle or less...i was told that these smaller arsenals often built a set amount for a certain province or maybe a local authority or late vietnam war..i can believe this being communist this rifle was an excuse of sorts to create labor for the people and could ramp an arsenal up and down as needed ,,like "creating jobs" here ..a local police force may need new rifles ,,you see ,,made up work..that may explain the low number of nineteen or even 0099 on the trigger as this arsenals order was a thousand or five hundred ....and the rifle in question as no marks at all like you photos ,,thnx for showng,, often criminal gangs will grind off s/n as well
Norinco, founded in 1980, refurbished old Type 56 SKS rifles before export into the civilian markets in the US (Canada, New Zealand, etc.) to bring in hard dollars for the Chinese economy (government). Refurbishment was cost effective because 1. the rifles were already built and given to them by the Chinese government, and 2. cheap labor. The reason they (or the Russians) scrubbed and restamped military firearms was due to the process. Break down 1000 or 10,000 or more rifles at a time, scrub the part numbers, toss all like parts in a single bluing basket, reblue, stamp to make the numbers on all parts match the receiver serial number on a particular barreled receiver, and reassemble. At the end they have a rifle "like new" in appearance and within specs with "matching" numbers, either ready for reserve armaments in the military or police, or ready for export sales.
The Chinese set up distributed factories mostly for practical reasons. If they were invaded, all of their armaments production couldn't be wiped out by a focused aerial bombing mission(s) on one or a few arsenals, or by losses of those arsenals to territorial gains by enemy ground forces. Certainly some of the factories were very low production and were probably part of "make work" goals within the planned economy aspects of the government to account for skilled labor surpluses.
Yes, criminals sometimes grind off serial numbers, but of course that has nothing to do with this factory level process.
i see ,,but as well it is such a chore to find all matching rifles..and i could see re bluing and s/n grinding as some useless make work scheme ..but we must also remember chinese industry transfers u.s. fiat to the governmt for yuan and in turn the chinese gvmnt buys u.s. t bills/bonds..but back to the rifles if this is one of these refurbs it is in new condition and is pre ban as well.gunsmiths have looked and never mentioned where seems to be re worked ..and again it has a different s/n on the trigger and ridges along the barrel.. i guess i keep digging ,,i really do enjoy this kind of stuff and pulling on each others thoughts ,,hell i havent begun the russian one yet..and this light colored wood ,a more tolerated wood for vietnam ?? saw that in a video..one more thing ,,why then the craze for battle hardened rifles then ,,youtube is full of videos about these cosmoline relics ,,high demand ..they were trying to sell old guns as new guns in u.s. stores then??
Definitely keep digging. Your gun could easily have an original S/N, we honestly know so little about the arsenal that it could have radically altered its S/N format in later years and we just haven't seen it. It's impossible to say w/o seeing all the other components though, they would provide additional clues I think.
Chinese wood is different from Russian for certain. It has often been called 'Chu' or Catalpa wood whereas Russian wood is Arctic Birch or laminated Arctic Birch.
FYI, the other oddball gun from /?5\ arsenal is this one:
(https://i.ibb.co/PYkbvqh/F07033-import-stamp.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/PQ0V8fc/F07033-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/FwXWTC2/F07033-right-whole.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/d7CyrXg/F07033-top.jpg)
Ahhh yes, ,I see now..I wI'll try to send more pics.took this long ,,I will do more..the shorter lug puts it back below eighties I guess.. the s/n on the bolt carrier the k is off a little but it's there ...seems yours is a carbine ?? Looks shorter barrel??
The photos I posted are of a 16" paratrooper. It's a BTC (Briklee Trading Company) import from the late 80's.
Short lug on these guns actually point to it being a pre 1972 gun. The transition from short lug to pinned lug occurred between year 16 and 17.
Year 11, 1966, short lug:
(https://i.ibb.co/GsJKFWk/1-1100167-left-lug.jpg)
Year 14, 1969, short lug:
(https://i.ibb.co/g3RNJgn/1-1401091-right-lug.jpg)
Year 15, 1970, short lug:
(https://i.ibb.co/4sRbF4m/6-1515484-left-lug.jpg)
Year 16, 1971, short lug:
(https://i.ibb.co/9yjsdmw/2-1603307-left-lug.jpg)
Year 17, 1972, pinned & pressed lug:
(https://i.ibb.co/QJGg3G6/8-1718916-left-lug.jpg)
Year 18, 1973, pinned & pressed lug:
(https://i.ibb.co/KsstHhb/6-1816587-left-lug.jpg)
The F series gun I posted earlier has a short lug as well:
(https://i.ibb.co/d7CyrXg/F07033-top.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/5T83Wyhttps://i.ibb.co/WFbmj5M/20210210-160827.jpgq/20210210-154535.jpg
Quote from: sksarego on February 10, 2021, 05:13:24 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/5T83Wyq/20210210-154535.jpg)
Fixed it for you
Bolt carrier appears to have been ground on, but it does look to match the receiver.
https://i.ibb.co/Lzb3rS1/20210210-160001.jpg
thnks for fixing
https://i.ibb.co/rG0k2fp/20210210-160348.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WFbmj5M/20210210-160827.jpg
The old Century Arms was located in St.Albans,Vermont, up near the Canadian border not in N.Y. state.
what suggest grinding to you
Quote from: sksarego on February 10, 2021, 05:19:33 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Lzb3rS1/20210210-160001.jpg)
thnks for fixing
Quote from: sksarego on February 10, 2021, 05:28:24 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/rG0k2fp/20210210-160348.jpg)
sksarego, when you copy these links over, if you will click on the icon below the B "bold" icon it is for adding pics and you place your link inbetween the [img] code. Then the images will show in your post. That is what I did to 'fix it' for you.
The top left character on the bolt carrier suggests grinding or the scrubbing of the gun to me.
Quote from: sksarego on February 10, 2021, 05:56:32 PM
what suggest grinding to you
The way the carrier looks around the SN stamp, but it could just be erosion on the carrier coupled with bad stamping, because it is not lined up properly to the front of the carrier.
Part of the K is missing.