DB or [0223]. I'll just leave this right here.

[running-man]

Only two photos that show anything of usefulness from the original gun.  This one is a neat one.  I have my thoughts, what say you?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Me thinks now we know the location for production line 0223.   

[Justin Hell]

Can we call her Debbie?

Nifty!

[Loose}{Cannon]

It was turned into a DB in 1972?   

[padams8888]

Well.....since my account is still active........What pics would you like to see? After It arrives....I can get good detailed pics if you think this would shed any light into the DB mystery.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Let us know if anything else is of interest.   

[Justin Hell]

I would be interested to see if the sight leaf was serialed to the gun.  Shouldn't we be getting into the III or 3 realm about then?

[padams8888]

 Rifle came in.....pics are on my photo-bucket.....it definitely is a strange bird......and cool. Interesting stamps...almost a date looking stamp on the underside of the receiver.  A different set of numbers on the bolt carrier and bolt. ]en...different numbers on the tang of the receiver cover and the receiver end near the barrel.....I found no number on the underside of the rear sight ramp. There is a number on the intermediate rod? I have never owned a DB rifle before...but I have heard the fit and finish was lackluster.....this rifle is not as such. I cant tell if the serial number is covering 2 Chinese characters after the DB or not.
DB Story by padams8888 | Photobucket

[firstchoice]

  Definitely different! Not seen one marked like that before. Since there doesn't seem to be any connection in the numbers, I take it that it's a mixmaster? But who marked the parts like that? Very cool to see. B-West was sure consistent about being inconsistent!  Thanks for the share!

  firstchoice

[running-man]

but I have heard the fit and finish was lackluster.....this rifle is not as such. I cant tell if the serial number is covering 2 Chinese characters after the DB or not.
DB Story by padams8888 | Photobucket

Definitely a neat one.  I would say you only have a single Lushun designator (旅) after the DB.  The odd dash number at the bottom of the receiver is consistent with an earlier DB (S/N 01846x), though the format is a bit different.   

I wonder if they used the same format on the receiver as their crates and ammo: XXX-YY-ZZZ lot number, year, factory.  If so yours would be lot #8, 1972, factory 10. and the one I show above would be lot 8-1 (not sure this is right as it's not consistent), 1972, factory 3

Makes me wonder if the Chinese began to track the individual components by using these dash stamps.  We certainly don't see these types of numbers stamped on Chinese guns themselves before say 1970.

[padams8888]

So......got to looking today at another one of my rifles......Not sure how I didn't notice it before....but the DB 0223 rifle laid next to my other [0223], they have the exact same number sequence stamped on the underside of the receiver.....not a mind blower....just thought it was interesting....The front underside numbers are different....

[running-man]

That's interesting stuff Pat! 

So the '72 at the bottom doesn't jive with the giant '70 on the side of the receiver. I'll have to think that one over.  Maybe I/we are wrong with the giant number assessment being a year code, or we're flat out wrong with the bottom number on the receiver being a lot-year-factory code...  Good stuff to think about.   

[running-man]

Although I just had a thought...it looks like they stamped the 70 and the [0223] immediately on the receivers after fabrication (as evidenced by the DB oopsie).  I wonder if they didn't simply do it rote and then had an unforseen situation where they couldn't actually assemble the gun until '72.  Maybe the stampings on the bottom are when they actually assembled (or heat treated/final machined/proof tested) the receivers...

[Loose}{Cannon]

Or maybe the bottom # isnt a date at all..

[padams8888]

Isn't the 70 something we see on the cast receiver sks's with the two vertical pins? I believe 2 previous ones I've owned were marked that way.....


Sorry for the bad pic.....but I believe this was one of them....albeit 0221 vice 0223. Maybe that bottom number is a contract control number?? 

[running-man]

It's entirely possible that the bottom x-xx-xx number isn't a lot-date-factory number, but I've got a hard time believing that the  Chinese would stamp something that looks exactly like a lot-date-factory code, yet it be an entirely different code. 


So if we break it down into which guns have the giant numerals:

The giant 70/71 (and possibly 72, think I've seen it but now I can't find one) are seen on:
[0221] (70 S/N's 402xxx, 300xxxx Interesting that there are two distinct ranges here)
[0223] (70 S/N's 32 0xxxxx)
[0233] (71 S/N's 10xxxx), also have a small '70, 0223 w/o a box around it, S/N 10240x)
DB Shenyang (Giant 721 xxxx)
DB Yanqing (Giant 721 00xxxx)

And these guns have the little 70's on them:
[0132] ('70)
[0138] ('70 including stamped receivers, '72, '75, '76)
[0141] ('72, '73, '75)
[0142] ('72)
[0147] ('73)
[0226b] ('72)
DB Harbin (70xxxxx)
DB Lushun (7210xxxx)
/6011\ ('71)

I think there's a decent correlation between the giant 70's and the little 70's as the majority of the little 70's (minus the oddball /6011\ examples) are all rectangle and DB examples just like the giant 70's in the upper list. 

Going to take more data to verify the pattern, but it will be interesting to see if any other giant 70's show up and whether they will be rectangle or DB stamped guns.

[Loose}{Cannon]

If the bottom #s are indeed a date code....  its likely applied sometime after the rifle was made. What the purpose is, is anyones guess.

[running-man]

What makes you think that?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Because 70 comes before 72.   

Dont forget many of the DBs show signs of being a converted DPs

[running-man]

Well of course the 72 comes after the 70! 

The question is whether the huge 70 is really a date code or is it something else.  I think it was intended to be a date code, but something caused this particular run of [0223]s to be delayed for some reason and they weren't assembled until '72, or maybe even later than that.  I'd love to see the bottom of the receivers of about a half dozen of these.  I wish we had more data!